Comments on: H.O.F.R.S.

By: Steve Evans

Steve Evans — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

"There are a wide variety of touchy-feely answers, and I generally decline to discuss them critically because they are quite personal, even sacred, to the recipients, and uninvited analysis of another's prayer response is never welcome. So I won't go there."

I understand your reasons (and share them), but that's too bad, because I think it would be helpful in a way to try and look at how the Spirit can manifest itself, and how you know that it was the Spirit. Maybe we don't want to analyze them, but is that a bar to educating others?

By: Dad

Dad — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Amid all the conjecture, one thing seems to stand out as sadly missing – the need for humility. Not just saying but truly becoming humble and contrite and Christ-like in all the things we think about and do in our lives. Now that probably sounds impossible. But during the past 18 months as my wife and I have served as directors of the Vancouver Regional Bishops’ Storehouse, we have had several very explicit experiences of feeling the spirit. We honestly try very hard to be Christ-like and let our lives be motivated simply by caring and loving others and by putting aside our worldly ambitions to humbly placing ourselves in God’s hands and letting him direct our lives.

I know that some of you, including Steve, have served missions during which your hearts have told you that the feelings you are feeling are coming only from one place – and that is the Lord. For those who have not had this remarkable experience, I recommend it heartily. It will lift you up on wings that you didn’t even know you had

By: Gary Lee

Gary Lee — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Does it not seem a bit odd that God would need us to help other people to recognize when he is speaking to them by means of the Spirit and when he is not? Why would we presume that the Spirit is incapable of doing his job without our help? And how can we ever know whether the advice we give another in this regard is sound?

By: Steve Evans

Steve Evans — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Gary, it does seem odd, but that’s exactly what missionaries do with investigators. I don’t think it’s a question of the Spirit not being effective, but rather that people are unable to exercise discernment. Either conclusion is disturbing.

By: Steve Evans

Steve Evans — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I feel something after Beaches, possibly nausea, possibly burning in the bosom. Again, difficult to discern.

By: Ben Huff

Ben Huff — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I think you might be trying too hard, Steve, and overlooking what's right under your nose. I think we really do have the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost when we are living right. Is that a surprise? It shouldn't be, but we often don't talk like it's true. I mean, we talk as though it is an exceptional thing when we feel the Spirit, as though the constant companionship of the HS is a matter of its always *watching* for times when we *need* to feel it and then jumping in to guide/strengthen/comfort us or whatever. But I think the Spirit is constantly present in us when we're living right. That means it feels normal to us, and we may not recognize that the way we normally feel is a way of feeling the Spirit (though if we thought about it, we would realize that what is going on in our hearts is different than what goes/went on in our hearts when we are/have been out of tune with the Spirit).

So it sounds to me, Steve, like you are looking too hard for it. Nothing that is a normal part of your life, scheduled or not, should necessarily make you suddenly feel the Spirit much more strongly or differently, if your life is normally lived in tune with the Spirit.

Does that seem reasonable to you?

That's not to say there won't be unusual moments we will especially notice it. I have moments like that. For example, for some reason when I am preparing for a Sunday School lesson (which is an exceptional occurrence for me, since I don't have it as a regular calling), I have extra good scripture study, partly because I spend longer, partly because I have a more focused goals and more distinct questions, partly perhaps because I am trying to think about what will be edifying to others, partly perhaps just as an extra boost for the sake of those in the class the Lord wants to reach that Sunday. I pretty consistently feel the Spirit extra strongly when I prep for SS, and during the lesson. Insights come five times as thick as usual, and I feel like I'm feasting, and don't want to stop, and I stay up too late reading and jumping from passage to passage, and I always prepare three times as much material as I can really cover, and have to make mid-course decisions about what to cut out, but I pretty well always feel the actual lesson that results is better than the one I had planned (well, anyway the last five times or so over the last couple of years), that the most helpful part for my audience is the part that there turns out to be time for. So it feels great, I feel renewed despite sleep deprivation, I feel guided and illuminated and taught, and I hear my listeners rejoicing with me in the treasures we've found together (D&C 50:22). It's great.
It's like ambrosia : )

By: Kristine

Kristine — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

It's interesting that you would start with HOFRS, Steve. I think missionaries are carefully taught to think that *any* feeling or emotional response at all is "the Spirit." I think (I can only hope!) I was in the MTC at the peak of the commitment pattern insanity, but it seemed like every 2 sentences we were supposed to ask "How do you feel about that?" Any response from "fine" to "I want to run screaming from the room" could be twisted into a manifestation of the Spirit ["You feel fine? That peaceful, calm feeling is the Spirit." "You want to run? That's the Spirit telling you that your former beliefs were wrong." And everything in between.] Ugh.

By: Steve E.

Steve E. — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Kristine, I read you loud and clear (when did you serve?). But clearly, it would be unhelpful to give missionaries no guidance on how to identify the Spirit. So what ought they to do?

Ideally, missionaries would have solid testimonies and some spiritual experiences under their belts, which would help them identify the spirit without indentifying EVERYTHING as the spirit. But this is not an ideal world, and you've got to give those 19-yr-olds some kind of advice...

By: Steve Evans

Steve Evans — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

LOL, I had a companion that felt the Spirit that same way.

On the other hand, I've had the same "spirit enlivens vs. spirit calms" discussion before, too. It's strange how adamant people can be about the 'proper' way to feel the spirit.

plus, this is a good chance to air my favorite 'spirit' pet peeve -- when people tell me how quickly they lost the spirit due to some external circumstance: "The zone conference was really great, but then elder smith snapped his gum, and the spirit just left the room." Come on, ye fragile people!

By: Randy

Randy — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Now that if the funniest thing I have read in a long time.