Comments on: A brief question

By: Steve Evans

Steve Evans — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

For the record, I’m not comfortable with what that member did in posting the endowment. I view the entire endowment as sacred, even if not subject to particular oaths or covenants.

By: Kaimi

Kaimi — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Interesting question. I notice that you _haven’t_ linked to the member’s site. So (unless that’s an oversight) you clearly seem to think that some actions _are_ over the line. Is the question then, where does one draw the line?

And would you consider your own views to be conservative, permissive, in between?

Finally, let me ask — in your view, is it particularly common for members to seek out extra-curricular education on the temple? If so, is that a good thing? A bad thing? Does it depend on the member?

By: a random John

a random John — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I think that there is a big difference between posting the majority of the text of the ceremony online for the world to see and discussing the same content privately with other members of the church.

By: Steve Evans

Steve Evans — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Good questions, Kaimi. I think I’ve answered your first one.

Where does one draw the line? As with many questions of practice in our church, I think that it is up to the individual within certain bounds. We have taken oaths not to disclose parts of the temple ceremony — does that mean the rest is fair game? That’s unanswerable, I think, absent a declaration from the Brethren.

I consider my own views to be in-between. I try to let the Spirit be my guide, and to make appropriate disclosure choices according to context. For example, I think a parent talking to her child in preparation for their own endowment may speak more frankly than perhaps would be appropriate on a website.

“is it particularly common for members to seek out extra-curricular education on the temple?” In my experience, yes, although the education rarely takes the form of reading the text of the endowment or such investigation. Normally people I know are satisfied with Boyd K. Packer’s book. Interest in the temple is a healthy thing, but one easily turned from curiosity into conspiracy theories.

That said, I wish we could more fully understand and appreciate the history of the endowment. I think it is an interesting and fundamental part of our religion.

By: HL Rogers

HL Rogers — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I agree witrh Steve’s last sentiment (#4) re understanding history and context of endowment better. That being said even Bob’s discussion of the temple made me uncomfortable (or at least certain comments on the thread). I’m not sure if my comfortability level should be my guide, nor am I sure my comfortability level is alsways related to spiritual promptings. I think the meber who posted large portions fo the endowment certainly crossed the line but aside from expressing my opinion and staying away from it b/c I choose to I really have no other role in the matter.

Perhaps my views are more conservative side (of this issue ;) ). This is one issue where I would rather err on the side of caution.

By: Steve Evans

Steve Evans — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

HL, interesting that you said the thread made you feel uncomfortable at times. Sometime I’ll share my story about how I actually had to defend my covenants not to disclose, but I didn’t think the thread was entirely inappropriate.

By: Kaimi

Kaimi — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Talk about a potential comments-go-to-hell thread, by the way.

Steve, I’ll bet you $10 that within the first 50 comments, someone will try to post part of the cermony. (We can talk about it later, when we’re buying lottery tickets at the casino.)

By: Steve Evans

Steve Evans — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Kaimi, you’re on. But I notice that you haven’t attempted to respond to your own questions…

By: Greg Call

Greg Call — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I must confess that when I first accessed “the internets” (in 1995 in the basement of some BYU building), one of the first things I looked up (after reading all of Quentin Tarantino’s scripts) was a site that catalogued the changes to the temple ceremony over the years. And a couple of years later I read Buerger’s book on the history of the endowment. While I was not altogether comfortable with reading these texts, I do think it is different than posting or publicly discussing the things I have covenanted and have been advised to keep to myself.

By: Arturo Toscanini

Arturo Toscanini — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I’m posting two parts of the ceremony, just so that Kaimi will win his bet:

First excerpt: “What is this?”
Second excerpt: “as contained in the scriptures.”

I’ve mentioned this before, but I think it would be great if once a week or once a month, some version of the original Nauvoo endowment (or as old an endowment as we’re sure about) were presented.