Comments on: Returning to the Book of Mormon http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/12/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/ A Mormon Blog Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:58:00 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Costanza http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/12/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30836 Costanza Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30836 This is really "weirding" me out because I, too, have been re-reading the Book of Mormon (per the challenge) and for the first time I have actually been a little annoyed with Nephi. It is interesting that Nephi is the only character that ALWAYS makes the right choice and NEVER complains. I was feeling guilty for being annoyed by Nephi's behavior, but I'm glad that others had a similar reaction. This is really “weirding” me out because I, too, have been re-reading the Book of Mormon (per the challenge) and for the first time I have actually been a little annoyed with Nephi. It is interesting that Nephi is the only character that ALWAYS makes the right choice and NEVER complains. I was feeling guilty for being annoyed by Nephi’s behavior, but I’m glad that others had a similar reaction.

]]> By: El Jefe http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/12/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30835 El Jefe Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30835 I like what JKS has posted. Besides, we can be so ethnocentric and temporalcentric. Some cultures value plain speaking (have you ever lived in a culture where "You are fat" upon meeting someone is not forbidden by the culture--I have). And some cultures value harmony over truth--like Japan. So to judge Nephi by the tiptoeing around that we currently see in OUR culture, may be unjust judgment. Poor Nephi, he just didn't know how badly he was injuring L&L's self esteem. I like what JKS has posted. Besides, we can be so ethnocentric and temporalcentric. Some cultures value plain speaking (have you ever lived in a culture where “You are fat” upon meeting someone is not forbidden by the culture–I have). And some cultures value harmony over truth–like Japan.

So to judge Nephi by the tiptoeing around that we currently see in OUR culture, may be unjust judgment.

Poor Nephi, he just didn’t know how badly he was injuring L&L’s self esteem.

]]> By: Steve Evans http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/12/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30833 Steve Evans Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30833 JKS, interesting ideas. I agree with you as to what Nephi's message is -- and I fully appreciate that my post misses Nephi's point. That was something I was trying to make clear. I think that Nephi is entirely right to call people to repentance. That said, the "kind father" aspect of God isn't something external to mormonism -- it is the Heavenly Father taught by Joseph Smith himself. He gives us commandments and expects a lot from us, but first and foremost, He is Love and He wants us to return to him. Now if Nephi could have been more effective in helping his brothers repent by being more kind to them, isn't that worth wondering? But I like what you say at the end -- the message is about obedience. That's a tough message to swallow, to be sure. JKS, interesting ideas. I agree with you as to what Nephi’s message is — and I fully appreciate that my post misses Nephi’s point. That was something I was trying to make clear. I think that Nephi is entirely right to call people to repentance.

That said, the “kind father” aspect of God isn’t something external to mormonism — it is the Heavenly Father taught by Joseph Smith himself. He gives us commandments and expects a lot from us, but first and foremost, He is Love and He wants us to return to him. Now if Nephi could have been more effective in helping his brothers repent by being more kind to them, isn’t that worth wondering?

But I like what you say at the end — the message is about obedience. That’s a tough message to swallow, to be sure.

]]> By: JKS http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/12/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30834 JKS Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30834 I definitely agree that our God is a kind father. I meant only that sometimes we concentrate a little too much on it, and I think it is because we are to some extent influenced by our current society. In my BoM reading, I just barely read the "cutting" comment a day or two ago. My thoughts were along the lines of the commandments you agree with are easy, its the commandments that you disagree with, or areas that you are guilty of sin, that you do not like to hear what God asks. As for Nephi's words, he speaks very formally. Are we mistaking his formality for harshness or inconsideration? The formality is probably there either because he is writing it down, and is using his best language, or because that is how everyone spoke. I think also that they were very interconnected once they left Jerusalem. Back home, they were probably more like us with our brothers and sisters. We feel it is none of our business what they do or don't do. We don't expect them to listen to us tell them of their mistakes. Imagine if you are in a business partnership with your sibling. Suddenly their mistakes, wickedness, become unacceptable. If your brother is doing something "wrong" you need to address it. If he is embezzling, if he is not following government regulations, if he is not treating employees well, all these things are things you would not be able to let be. You would have to have a talk with them. I assume life on the way to the promised land would have been more like this situation, where the mistakes of some could not be ignored because they hurt the entire party. I definitely agree that our God is a kind father. I meant only that sometimes we concentrate a little too much on it, and I think it is because we are to some extent influenced by our current society.
In my BoM reading, I just barely read the “cutting” comment a day or two ago. My thoughts were along the lines of the commandments you agree with are easy, its the commandments that you disagree with, or areas that you are guilty of sin, that you do not like to hear what God asks.
As for Nephi’s words, he speaks very formally. Are we mistaking his formality for harshness or inconsideration? The formality is probably there either because he is writing it down, and is using his best language, or because that is how everyone spoke.
I think also that they were very interconnected once they left Jerusalem. Back home, they were probably more like us with our brothers and sisters. We feel it is none of our business what they do or don’t do. We don’t expect them to listen to us tell them of their mistakes.
Imagine if you are in a business partnership with your sibling. Suddenly their mistakes, wickedness, become unacceptable. If your brother is doing something “wrong” you need to address it. If he is embezzling, if he is not following government regulations, if he is not treating employees well, all these things are things you would not be able to let be. You would have to have a talk with them. I assume life on the way to the promised land would have been more like this situation, where the mistakes of some could not be ignored because they hurt the entire party.

]]> By: GreenEggz http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/12/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30831 GreenEggz Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30831 I can't wait to read the English translation of Nephi's large plates, at least the ones he engraved himself. Or maybe by the time they are revealed we'll be able to study Reformed Egyptian. I can’t wait to read the English translation of Nephi’s large plates, at least the ones he engraved himself.

Or maybe by the time they are revealed we’ll be able to study Reformed Egyptian.

]]> By: JKS http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/12/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30832 JKS Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30832 Nephi isn't PC. I don't think God is either. We sometimes overemphasize the "kind father" aspect of God (we've been influenced by modern US churches). God has commandments. Not suggestions. He expects a lot from us. Obedience vs. sin. Nephi's words aren't just for Laman and Lemuel. They are for us. So if we are told to quit sinning, it is a hard truth. How should we react? Like L&L? Do we get angry? Or should we listen to the words of Nephi, and vow to be obedient to God. To identify with L&L because we sometimes sin, we make mistakes, we are blind, we are foolish, is understandable. But to say that God or his mouthpeice should be more PC when talking to us, to be kinder in calling us to repentence, to be less black & white about sin and obedience, is to miss Nephi's point entirely. He, and Heavenly Father, have a message for us in Nephi. And it seems to be about obedience. No matter what he asks, we should do. No matter how hard it is, we should go forward in faith, no matter what we have done in the past, we are still implored to start obeying the word of GOd. Nephi isn’t PC. I don’t think God is either. We sometimes overemphasize the “kind father” aspect of God (we’ve been influenced by modern US churches).
God has commandments. Not suggestions. He expects a lot from us. Obedience vs. sin.
Nephi’s words aren’t just for Laman and Lemuel. They are for us.
So if we are told to quit sinning, it is a hard truth. How should we react? Like L&L? Do we get angry? Or should we listen to the words of Nephi, and vow to be obedient to God.
To identify with L&L because we sometimes sin, we make mistakes, we are blind, we are foolish, is understandable.
But to say that God or his mouthpeice should be more PC when talking to us, to be kinder in calling us to repentence, to be less black & white about sin and obedience, is to miss Nephi’s point entirely.
He, and Heavenly Father, have a message for us in Nephi. And it seems to be about obedience. No matter what he asks, we should do. No matter how hard it is, we should go forward in faith, no matter what we have done in the past, we are still implored to start obeying the word of GOd.

]]> By: alamojag http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/12/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30826 alamojag Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30826 Many, many years ago, somebody on Prodigy (I guess that tells you how old it is) posted Laman's diary. Hilarious. Being an older brother myself, I always had a little sympathy for L&L. Many, many years ago, somebody on Prodigy (I guess that tells you how old it is) posted Laman’s diary. Hilarious. Being an older brother myself, I always had a little sympathy for L&L.

]]> By: Ben S. http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/12/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30827 Ben S. Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30827 A. Gant: You're thinking of Grant Hardy's "Book of Mormon Reader's Edition" published a while ago. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0252027973/qid=1123915629/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-0798104-7528637?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 A. Gant: You’re thinking of Grant Hardy’s “Book of Mormon Reader’s Edition” published a while ago.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0252027973/qid=1123915629/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-0798104-7528637?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

]]> By: Kristine http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/12/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30828 Kristine Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30828 Steve, Can you say a little more about how/why you came to like the Book of Mormon so much? Is it just familiarity? I have to confess that it has always been my least favorite book of scripture, despite many readings and lots of attempts at different kinds of study. The Psalms feel like home to me, and Isaiah, and Luke, but the Book of Mormon never has. Steve,

Can you say a little more about how/why you came to like the Book of Mormon so much? Is it just familiarity? I have to confess that it has always been my least favorite book of scripture, despite many readings and lots of attempts at different kinds of study. The Psalms feel like home to me, and Isaiah, and Luke, but the Book of Mormon never has.

]]> By: Steve Evans http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/12/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30829 Steve Evans Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/returning-to-the-book-of-mormon/#comment-30829 Kristine, I know what you mean about Luke; I feel that way about it too, and James as well. I guess it's a matter of it being so fundamentally linked to that time in my life when I was first gaining my testimony and first beginning to read the scriptures -- <i>any</i> scriptures -- in earnest. There's lots in the BoM I don't understand, or like (the Isaiah verses!), but overall it's so linked to the restoration and the restoration of my testimony that every time I read it it just hearkens back to those times. A Proustian madeleine if you will, but it works. Kristine, I know what you mean about Luke; I feel that way about it too, and James as well. I guess it’s a matter of it being so fundamentally linked to that time in my life when I was first gaining my testimony and first beginning to read the scriptures — any scriptures — in earnest. There’s lots in the BoM I don’t understand, or like (the Isaiah verses!), but overall it’s so linked to the restoration and the restoration of my testimony that every time I read it it just hearkens back to those times. A Proustian madeleine if you will, but it works.

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