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	<title>Comments on: Why I Am A Tad Bothered By Captain Moroni</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/14/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/14/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 20:31:41 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Bloggernacle Times &#187; LDS4gaymarriage.net&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/14/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47565</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bloggernacle Times &#187; LDS4gaymarriage.net&#8230;]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jan 2006 00:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47565</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] &#8230;claims to provide LDS doctrinal support for &#8220;civil same-sex marriage.&#8221; The site is run by a gentlemen (or lady?) called &#8220;Captain Moroni.&#8221; If you do not join their fight, you may be put to death&#8230; [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8230;claims to provide LDS doctrinal support for &#8220;civil same-sex marriage.&#8221; The site is run by a gentlemen (or lady?) called &#8220;Captain Moroni.&#8221; If you do not join their fight, you may be put to death&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Green</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/14/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47465</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan Green]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47465</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Did you ever hear about the time the kingmen won? In 13th-century Iceland, there was a sorta similar contention between those who wanted to preserve Iceland&#039;s independence and those who wanted to give their allegiance to the Norwegian king. The kingmen carried the day, the Norwegian kings subsequently neglected the needs of their distant province, and Iceland spent five centuries in desperate poverty.

By the time I hit the &quot;post&quot; button or shortly thereafter, someone will explain that in Moroni&#039;s time, the land was under attack, the Nephite kingmen were committing treason, Moroni was justified, etc. Whatever. As history, I agree that the story is a teensy bit problematic. But as a specimen of pre-modern literature, it works pretty well. Slaying thousands due to one&#039;s tremendous wrath happens all the time in medieval literature, at least. I was just reading a similar incident in &quot;Ortnit&quot; (before the Sabbath afternoon post-dinner blood sugar collapse knocked me unconscious).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you ever hear about the time the kingmen won? In 13th-century Iceland, there was a sorta similar contention between those who wanted to preserve Iceland&#8217;s independence and those who wanted to give their allegiance to the Norwegian king. The kingmen carried the day, the Norwegian kings subsequently neglected the needs of their distant province, and Iceland spent five centuries in desperate poverty.</p>
<p>By the time I hit the &#8220;post&#8221; button or shortly thereafter, someone will explain that in Moroni&#8217;s time, the land was under attack, the Nephite kingmen were committing treason, Moroni was justified, etc. Whatever. As history, I agree that the story is a teensy bit problematic. But as a specimen of pre-modern literature, it works pretty well. Slaying thousands due to one&#8217;s tremendous wrath happens all the time in medieval literature, at least. I was just reading a similar incident in &#8220;Ortnit&#8221; (before the Sabbath afternoon post-dinner blood sugar collapse knocked me unconscious).</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Evans</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/14/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47466</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Evans]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47466</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Those nephites didn&#039;t like the King-men, but they sure didn&#039;t have much of a democracy, either...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those nephites didn&#8217;t like the King-men, but they sure didn&#8217;t have much of a democracy, either&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ronan</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/14/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47467</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ronan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47467</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JG,
That&#039;s just it. What Moroni did befits his time and may work in the BoM&#039;s favour as ancient lit. So some would say it makes BoM more &quot;true,&quot; yet the doctrine it espouses in this instance (kill traitors) isn&#039;t &quot;true,&quot; at least not in my book. Or maybe it&#039;s just that I&#039;m a King-Man....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JG,<br />
That&#8217;s just it. What Moroni did befits his time and may work in the BoM&#8217;s favour as ancient lit. So some would say it makes BoM more &#8220;true,&#8221; yet the doctrine it espouses in this instance (kill traitors) isn&#8217;t &#8220;true,&#8221; at least not in my book. Or maybe it&#8217;s just that I&#8217;m a King-Man&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ann</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/14/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47468</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47468</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Moroni is a jerk.

Moroni asks Pahoran for help, and no help comes.  So he writes a nasty letter ripping Pahoran a new one, accusing him of all kinds of things, projecting motivation onto Pahoran&#039;s lack of participation with No Data, because apparently Moroni has a Mind Reading Hat.

Then, Pahoran sends a letter explaining what happened (&quot;Sorry we couldn&#039;t help, but we were under attack, y&#039;see...but I&#039;m not angry that you told me off without cause&quot;).  The narrative indicates that Moroni is happy that Pahoran has not abandoned the cause.  At any point, though, does the narrative indicate that Moroni was &lt;b&gt;wrong&lt;/b&gt;?  Does Moroni express any &lt;b&gt;regret&lt;/b&gt; for going off half-cocked?  Does he recognize that the appropriate response for ripping someone a new one without cause would be to &lt;b&gt;apologize&lt;/b&gt;?

And furthermore - the Title of Liberty was stupid.  Who puts an entire paragraph of text on a flag made out of a coat to inspire people?  Um, d&#039;you suppose people were actually able to &lt;b&gt;read&lt;/b&gt; the text, way up there on the flagpole?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moroni is a jerk.</p>
<p>Moroni asks Pahoran for help, and no help comes.  So he writes a nasty letter ripping Pahoran a new one, accusing him of all kinds of things, projecting motivation onto Pahoran&#8217;s lack of participation with No Data, because apparently Moroni has a Mind Reading Hat.</p>
<p>Then, Pahoran sends a letter explaining what happened (&#8220;Sorry we couldn&#8217;t help, but we were under attack, y&#8217;see&#8230;but I&#8217;m not angry that you told me off without cause&#8221;).  The narrative indicates that Moroni is happy that Pahoran has not abandoned the cause.  At any point, though, does the narrative indicate that Moroni was <b>wrong</b>?  Does Moroni express any <b>regret</b> for going off half-cocked?  Does he recognize that the appropriate response for ripping someone a new one without cause would be to <b>apologize</b>?</p>
<p>And furthermore &#8211; the Title of Liberty was stupid.  Who puts an entire paragraph of text on a flag made out of a coat to inspire people?  Um, d&#8217;you suppose people were actually able to <b>read</b> the text, way up there on the flagpole?</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff J</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/14/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47469</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoff J]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47469</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ok, Iâ€™ll fulfill part of Jonathanâ€™s prediction.

Nibley went to great lengths to show that these king men were not pacifists, but rather they were an armed militia that was a very real threat to the nation. The fact that is was a true battle between the King Men and the army supports this.  We are told how many king-men died but not how many free-men in Moroniâ€™s army died.  Later events also show that the leftovers of these king-men temporarily succeeded in forcibly overthrowing the government while Moroni and friends were at the front line fending off the invaders.  I think the Nibley essays I have in mind are reprinted in &lt;i&gt;The Prophetic Book of Mormon&lt;/i&gt;.

(BTW -- I think that some of those essays rival his work in &lt;i&gt;Approaching Zion&lt;/i&gt;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, Iâ€™ll fulfill part of Jonathanâ€™s prediction.</p>
<p>Nibley went to great lengths to show that these king men were not pacifists, but rather they were an armed militia that was a very real threat to the nation. The fact that is was a true battle between the King Men and the army supports this.  We are told how many king-men died but not how many free-men in Moroniâ€™s army died.  Later events also show that the leftovers of these king-men temporarily succeeded in forcibly overthrowing the government while Moroni and friends were at the front line fending off the invaders.  I think the Nibley essays I have in mind are reprinted in <i>The Prophetic Book of Mormon</i>.</p>
<p>(BTW &#8212; I think that some of those essays rival his work in <i>Approaching Zion</i>)</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/14/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47470</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47470</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As I showed the action figure link to my wife, she said, &quot;Oh brother, what&#039;s next?  An Ammon doll with removable arms?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I showed the action figure link to my wife, she said, &#8220;Oh brother, what&#8217;s next?  An Ammon doll with removable arms?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: DKL</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/14/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47471</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DKL]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47471</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ronan, you must &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; hate Henry V.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ronan, you must <i>really</i> hate Henry V.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/14/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47472</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frank McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47472</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apparently Mormon knew there would be people like you, Ronan.  And so he specifically put in a little plug about the righteousness of Moroni!

The more interesting question is, when you see things like this in the Book of Mormon, do you presume that you&#039;re right and they&#039;re wrong or the other way around?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently Mormon knew there would be people like you, Ronan.  And so he specifically put in a little plug about the righteousness of Moroni!</p>
<p>The more interesting question is, when you see things like this in the Book of Mormon, do you presume that you&#8217;re right and they&#8217;re wrong or the other way around?</p>
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		<title>By: Katie</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/08/14/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47473</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Katie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://centaur.nocdirect.com/~jbycommo/2005/08/why-i-am-a-tad-bothered-by-captain-moroni/#comment-47473</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am definetly with Ronan and Ann on this one. I have had the exact same beef with Moroni for some time and it is good to know that others feel the same. The real hero of this section of the BOM is Pahoran. As Ann says, Moroni rips him a new one, accusing him of being an out and out traitor. I think it would be so hard to keep your cool when such accusations had been leveled at you. But Pahoran answers Moroni with: &quot;And now, in your epistle you have censured me, but it mattereth not; I am not angry, but do rejoice in the greatness of your heart.&quot; Then he calls Moroni his &quot;beloved brother.&quot; For me Pahoran is one of the best scriptural examples of Christ-like forgiveness and love. I call for a Pahoran action figure to be made, all in favor say aye!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am definetly with Ronan and Ann on this one. I have had the exact same beef with Moroni for some time and it is good to know that others feel the same. The real hero of this section of the BOM is Pahoran. As Ann says, Moroni rips him a new one, accusing him of being an out and out traitor. I think it would be so hard to keep your cool when such accusations had been leveled at you. But Pahoran answers Moroni with: &#8220;And now, in your epistle you have censured me, but it mattereth not; I am not angry, but do rejoice in the greatness of your heart.&#8221; Then he calls Moroni his &#8220;beloved brother.&#8221; For me Pahoran is one of the best scriptural examples of Christ-like forgiveness and love. I call for a Pahoran action figure to be made, all in favor say aye!</p>
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