I would add a caveat to the HT example. Consistently done does not mean well done. I have a few people in my EQ that get their 30 minute HT lessons done just about everyweek, but they are not fuffilling their stewardship with regards to what their families really need. If the latter is done consistently it will make the ward run smoother. It frees up time for the Bishop and others to do their work and who to focus their efforts on. I know its a personal testimonial and probalby one that unless you have seen the impact you have on some families or unless you yourself have been impacted its harder to see the importance of it.

I’m reminded of two main thoughts about this. One is that we answer eachother’s prayers. So the cause and effect of prayer and fasting can sometimes be attributed to others living up to their standards and us as well and the other and more important one is in 2 Nephi 27:23, we are reminded that miracles and answers to prayers are given to us as our faith draws them out. I talked about this a couple of weeks ago on my own blog as “Faith as a Catylist”.

I think that the cause/effect action-oriented list you give is more a “bad” thing IF the individual expects the outcome to be what he/she consistently hears repeated at the pulpit. For every story I hear about someone paying their tithing in the most dire of circumstances and being saved at the last moment by a mysterious check, there are thousands of others who stay finacially broke. I only hope those that stay broke aren’t continuing to pay their tithing in hopes of that action alone providing their financial security.

It seems to me that in our church we focus so much on the temporal effects of commandments/religious devotion–I rarely hear the word “grace” spoken at church.

One story, last testimony meeting my husband (who is not Mormon) and I listened as a gentleman sobbed and sobbed at the pulpit asking the congregation for “retribution.” We were visiting my parents’, so I didn’t know this man, but thought “wow, he must’ve done something juicy” He proceeded to ask individuals for forgiveness for NOT BEING A CONSISTENT HOMETEACHER. My husband was so confused. All I could say was, “hey, we’ve got a lot of guilt.” He understood. He’s Catholic.

Your prayer/fasting/temple example seems out of place on the list. All of the others lead to specific blessings/results, but that one leads to nothing as you have described it. What did you have in mind for those acts of faith and supplication to lead to?

As for the others, I can’t see any problem with some of them. For instance, it is demonstrably true that abstaining from smoking, drinking, inappropriate drugs, coffee, etc. will allow a person to live a longer and healthier life than if that same person partakes in all of those. Further, who would argue that a ward that consistently does home teaching will not run “better” than one that rarely does it? Isn’t this just common sense?

This just in: Coffee is good for you http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/050829_coffee_health.html

yeah yeah, science (esp. nutritional science) is always changing. What doesn’t change is that moderation is always key. Abstaning from alchohol, coffee, etc. won’t result a longer life than someone who has a glass of wine a day and a mug of coffee.

I think Bob’s post was essentially about thinking that doing A will begat B (where B is not spiritual but temporal). Again, faithful, prayerful people when doing action A can result in a myriad of effects, not just the one ideal “B” that we seem to focus on.

When you say, “who would argue that a ward that consistently does home teaching will not run “better” than one that rarely does it?” I have to answer you by explaining that I have been in a branch that has run much “better” with no home teaching than the ward I am in with plenty of it. The branch in question did not have enough priesthood holders to have home teaching. But the lack of home teaching didn’t stop that branch from being run “better.”

The “common sense” approach you talk of is only common sense when millions of variables in this world are held constant. This is true with any of my examples above, I think.

I don’t object to people believing that certain actions will bring certain blessings. What troubles me about things in your list, and others that Mormons associate with, are the spoken and unspoken digs at those who have different results. A friend of mine attended a talk on missionary work by a member of the Seventy. This Seventy (my friend told me who it was, but I’ll refrain here) said that *no* missionary would ever be harmed in the field if they are obedient and doing their job. Those missionaries that are hurt or killed must somehow be disobedient.

Whether it’s idiocy like this, or simply not thinking through the consequences of saying your prayers are answered, it bothers me. For example, I begrudge no one the faith to believe that their prayers saved a loved one’s life. But when we bear testimony that our prayers made a difference, how are those who have prayed just as hard as we have, but have had different results, supposed to feel?

I’m not suggestiong no one should be able to bear testimony or share stories about how their faith and prayers did good, I just wish we were more aware of those for whom it didn’t do good, or at least didn’t result in the outcome they’d hoped for. Especially when our answered prayers are about far less important issues (like the time a woman bore her testimony on my mission about praying and not having to buy gasoline on Sunday as a result).

However, in the meantime I have come to learn that living the commandments helps us to personally see the world in a different perspective and to recognize blessings when they come to us. We will still experience hardship in our lives (hopefully because they will make us better individuals) but we will see them as a challenge to our strenght rather than as punishment for our behavior.

We nearly lost a wayward son several years ago and then he turned his life around and came back to us. It was at a time when I had turned my own life around and finally became a committed church member and I learned from that experience that the best way to insure the path of our children is to walk in that same path ourselves. I’m not sure there is much more we can do. I know that nothing is guarenteed in life and that my son, or one of my other children, could lose their way again. But of course I pray every day that they won’t and pray that I can remain steadfast as well. It’s a battle worth fighting.

I think that if everyone in the ward Home taught each other becasue they wanted to, because they really enjoyed the people they home taught and desired to go over and visit, the ward would run alot smoother. It is just tantamount to saying that if we were all perfect the ward would be perfect. It is when the actions themselves are removed from the context of reasons, desires, and belief that such cause/effect clauses become ridiculous.