<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: For Long Hair is Given to her Instead of a Testicle</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/01/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/01/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 07:52:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kevin Barney</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/01/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17847</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Barney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 17:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17847</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m glad you found this, Lynn, and commented.  Thanks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad you found this, Lynn, and commented.  Thanks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lynn Svedin</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/01/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17846</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lynn Svedin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 15:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17846</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I read this article several years ago and really enjoyed it.  I have used it several times in discussions with people who claim the Bible is easy to read and understand.  Apparently, after reading this article, I have re-learnt that one cannot understand scripture fully until one understands the culture the scripture is written in.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read this article several years ago and really enjoyed it.  I have used it several times in discussions with people who claim the Bible is easy to read and understand.  Apparently, after reading this article, I have re-learnt that one cannot understand scripture fully until one understands the culture the scripture is written in.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kevin Barney</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/01/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17845</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Barney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 16:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17845</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, on Ronan&#039;s point I should have said &quot;dual&quot; rather than &quot;plural.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, on Ronan&#8217;s point I should have said &#8220;dual&#8221; rather than &#8220;plural.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kevin Barney</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/01/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17844</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Barney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 16:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17844</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great comments so far.

Ok, let&#039;s review the bidding, first by reviewing the positive features of the argument, then those that don&#039;t work so well.

On the plus side:

- The argument works better with &lt;em&gt;phusis &lt;/em&gt;&quot;nature&quot; than most other arguments.  I claimed too much when I equated this with medical science, but as Paul uses the term it does seem to refer to something physical within a body or being.  We recognize short hair on men and long hair on women as cultural, not something imposed by nature itself.

- The argument gives full meaning to the preposition &lt;em&gt;anti &lt;/em&gt;governing the genitive peribolaiou, which would have the connotation of &quot;instead of, in the place of, in lieu of.&quot;  Virtually all English tranlsations fudge this.  The concept is one of equivalency or exchange; a woman&#039;s hair is given to her in lieu of a &lt;em&gt;peribolaion&lt;/em&gt;.

- The argument avoids the contradiction of requiring a woman to wear a covering, but saying that her hair itself already serves as a covering.

- The ancient medical literature seems to support the argument.  (This is actually part of a broader study to bring to bear ancient medical science on scriptural exegesis.)

- The ancient medical notion of women as imperfect or lesser men works well with the rest of Paul&#039;s argument.

On the minus side:

- I think ascribing the meaning &quot;testicle&quot; to &lt;em&gt;peribolaion &lt;/em&gt;is pretty problematic.  That word lit. means &quot;that which is thrown around,&quot; and its basic meaning is some sort of a &quot;covering.&quot;  Euripides does indeed use the word to mean &quot;encasements of flesh&quot;; IE euphemistic for &quot;testicles&quot; [and metaphoric for &quot;youth, manhood&quot;].  But as several have pointed out, that usage derives from Attic.  The word is not at all common, but I cannot find a comparable usage in any other Koine text.  So query, if this is what Paul meant, would a first century reader have understood him?

- Ronan has a point, in that the plural would be a more natural usage than the singular.

- As J. and others point out, if the argument is taken to its logical conclusion, women should never show their hair, nor should men.

- Trailer Trash raises an interesting question about meshing this argument with v. 10.

In sum, I think the strength of the argument is the medical science, and the weakness is the lexical connection of &lt;em&gt;peribolaion &lt;/em&gt;to testicle.

After hashing this out, I&#039;m inclined to be sceptical.  &lt;em&gt;If &lt;/em&gt;this is what Paul intended, then it was a strained attempt by Paul to bring the science of his day to bear on the argument he &lt;em&gt;really &lt;/em&gt;was trying to make, which was grounded in the culture.  Contradictions remain, but it may be folly to assume that the contradictions in Paul&#039;s argument were not there all along.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great comments so far.</p>
<p>Ok, let&#8217;s review the bidding, first by reviewing the positive features of the argument, then those that don&#8217;t work so well.</p>
<p>On the plus side:</p>
<p>- The argument works better with <em>phusis </em>&#8220;nature&#8221; than most other arguments.  I claimed too much when I equated this with medical science, but as Paul uses the term it does seem to refer to something physical within a body or being.  We recognize short hair on men and long hair on women as cultural, not something imposed by nature itself.</p>
<p>- The argument gives full meaning to the preposition <em>anti </em>governing the genitive peribolaiou, which would have the connotation of &#8220;instead of, in the place of, in lieu of.&#8221;  Virtually all English tranlsations fudge this.  The concept is one of equivalency or exchange; a woman&#8217;s hair is given to her in lieu of a <em>peribolaion</em>.</p>
<p>- The argument avoids the contradiction of requiring a woman to wear a covering, but saying that her hair itself already serves as a covering.</p>
<p>- The ancient medical literature seems to support the argument.  (This is actually part of a broader study to bring to bear ancient medical science on scriptural exegesis.)</p>
<p>- The ancient medical notion of women as imperfect or lesser men works well with the rest of Paul&#8217;s argument.</p>
<p>On the minus side:</p>
<p>- I think ascribing the meaning &#8220;testicle&#8221; to <em>peribolaion </em>is pretty problematic.  That word lit. means &#8220;that which is thrown around,&#8221; and its basic meaning is some sort of a &#8220;covering.&#8221;  Euripides does indeed use the word to mean &#8220;encasements of flesh&#8221;; IE euphemistic for &#8220;testicles&#8221; [and metaphoric for "youth, manhood"].  But as several have pointed out, that usage derives from Attic.  The word is not at all common, but I cannot find a comparable usage in any other Koine text.  So query, if this is what Paul meant, would a first century reader have understood him?</p>
<p>- Ronan has a point, in that the plural would be a more natural usage than the singular.</p>
<p>- As J. and others point out, if the argument is taken to its logical conclusion, women should never show their hair, nor should men.</p>
<p>- Trailer Trash raises an interesting question about meshing this argument with v. 10.</p>
<p>In sum, I think the strength of the argument is the medical science, and the weakness is the lexical connection of <em>peribolaion </em>to testicle.</p>
<p>After hashing this out, I&#8217;m inclined to be sceptical.  <em>If </em>this is what Paul intended, then it was a strained attempt by Paul to bring the science of his day to bear on the argument he <em>really </em>was trying to make, which was grounded in the culture.  Contradictions remain, but it may be folly to assume that the contradictions in Paul&#8217;s argument were not there all along.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TrailerTrash</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/01/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17843</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TrailerTrash]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 May 2006 23:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17843</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The argument doesn&#039;t quite make sense to me.  If hair = genitalia, then why don&#039;t men have to cover thier hair?

The medical literature is about fertility. I am much more persauded that the veil for women is a prophylactic against the lust of angels (i.e. Gen 6) as they commune with God in prayer and prophesy.  Tertullian gives this interpretation of the text as well.  The warning about the angels in 1 Cor 11:10 seems to support this reading, but doesn&#039;t fit at all with the question about fertility.

I don&#039;t see how this can be related to Paul&#039;s concern here with how one should pray.  What am I missing?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The argument doesn&#8217;t quite make sense to me.  If hair = genitalia, then why don&#8217;t men have to cover thier hair?</p>
<p>The medical literature is about fertility. I am much more persauded that the veil for women is a prophylactic against the lust of angels (i.e. Gen 6) as they commune with God in prayer and prophesy.  Tertullian gives this interpretation of the text as well.  The warning about the angels in 1 Cor 11:10 seems to support this reading, but doesn&#8217;t fit at all with the question about fertility.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see how this can be related to Paul&#8217;s concern here with how one should pray.  What am I missing?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nate T.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/01/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17842</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nate T.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 May 2006 15:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17842</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Having done this kind of studies in Chinese, I find it intresting he does not reffer to the meaning of the word as it was current in Paul&#039;s time, but instead dives back into ancient Greek to explain a Hebrew paratice. It seems flawed to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having done this kind of studies in Chinese, I find it intresting he does not reffer to the meaning of the word as it was current in Paul&#8217;s time, but instead dives back into ancient Greek to explain a Hebrew paratice. It seems flawed to me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Elisabeth</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/01/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17841</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Elisabeth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 May 2006 14:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17841</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting! This connection between long hair (which both men and women grow equally as well) and sexual reproduction is based on the social custom of how people wear their hair, not on biology or divine nature. And so is Paul&#039;s disparate treatment of women and men.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting! This connection between long hair (which both men and women grow equally as well) and sexual reproduction is based on the social custom of how people wear their hair, not on biology or divine nature. And so is Paul&#8217;s disparate treatment of women and men.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BrianJ</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/01/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17840</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BrianJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 May 2006 06:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17840</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;&quot;I found it interesting that according to this ancient medical science women also have semen in their body&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

I researched this question after reading the phrase &quot;enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed.&quot; I found (Jewish Encyclopedia) that it was thought that vaginal discharge was the female equivalent of semen, so Eve was said to have &quot;seed.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8220;I found it interesting that according to this ancient medical science women also have semen in their body&#8221;</em></p>
<p>I researched this question after reading the phrase &#8220;enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed.&#8221; I found (Jewish Encyclopedia) that it was thought that vaginal discharge was the female equivalent of semen, so Eve was said to have &#8220;seed.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Seth R.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/01/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17815</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Seth R.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 May 2006 03:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17815</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve,

Not all of us do all our thinking between our legs thanks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>Not all of us do all our thinking between our legs thanks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ian M. Cook</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/01/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17839</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ian M. Cook]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 May 2006 18:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/05/for-long-hair-is-given-to-her-instead-of-a-testicle/#comment-17839</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This kind of reminds me of the talk about young men and the soldiers...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This kind of reminds me of the talk about young men and the soldiers&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

