Not quite “quite common”. And the reasons for it? Unknown. For exampmle, with all the dumping of chemicals into the rivers/ oceans, and dolphins so often close to shore, is it any wonder sometimes that it might be thought an aberration? Also, is it possible that “nature” sins?

I don’t think the Church will ever change on homosexuality. It’s thinking might, and it has.

But what differentiates homosexuality from any other sin? Is it possible that ALL sin (or even some) is equally grounded in genes, environment, etc.? I would like to hear arguments that homosexuality is somehow different and nonrelated, and needs to be understood and treated differently than other sins.

Gee, they had that discussion in Acts, about what to keep and what to reject. Most people who revisit the question seem to assume that we need to ignore what happened when they went over the issues and got guidance.

loving pleasure rather than
loving God

Many of the issues in our society involve seeking fulfillment. I’ve an ex-brother-in-law who felt he needed to have a big busted blond in his life, so he left his wife (and their six children) for one. He is still with her (unlike his wife, her hair bleaches out well). I won’t get into Albert Walles who is another ex-brother-in-law in my extended family.

But when you look at all the men who discard their wives for younger editions, you are capturing that focus.

I’m not drawing direct conclusions because I’m not sure they are correct, but the factors influence Church leaders who deal with issues like this over and over again.

you just can’t group all of anything together

Very, very true.

BTW, there is a lot of semantic contamination going on, which creates all sorts of problems.

Hellmut- I think the concept of mother in heaven can serve to ease the transition beyond patriarchy. However, I think it can also be used just as strongly to reinforce patriarchy. I find that one’s understanding of the Mother in Heaven doctrine has a lot more to do with other theological/philosophical commitments one has, since there is not a common discourse about Her. Although I think that if a discourse was developed it would probably not bode well for patriarchy.

I do think though, that the gay marriage issue does raise some questions about Mother in Heaven. If gay marriage is legitimate in the fullest sense then it raises the question of whether or not we really do have or need a Mother in Heaven. I find this interesting because some of the more “liberally” minded people who see the need for Mother in Heaven also have more liberal views of gay marriage. I definitely see a tension there. I know these questions are way off the mainstream discussion, I just find that it has an interesting relationship to the debate.

This is why, like Steve H. (#70), the Bible, D&C 131 and 132 just isn’t much of an issue for me. Such scriptures have spiritual value as a means of drawing closer to God, as historical value as a means of lessons learned (both in terms of what to do and what NOT to do), but not as a final-word blue print for the present and future.

I loved what you said about sexuality here:

Some people think of sexuality (as in heterosexuality and homosexuality) purely in terms of sex, but most people know that there is an emotional essence to their sexuality, that heterosexual men don’t just desire women sexually, they desire them romantically and emotionally.

I think our society has destroyed an integral and very special part of human relationships by sexualizing even the most casual romantic/emotional feelings for another person.

Anyways, I was wondering how you relate these concepts to the fact that we actually talk very little of mother in heaven these days? Isn’t the doctrine of mother in heaven an asset that eases transitions beyond patriarchy?

Furthermore, appealing to divine mother and fatherhood seems just as problematic unless one is willing to believe that human spirits are conceived through sexual intercourse, using some sort of spiritual DNA, and requiring gestatation and maybe vaginal birth. Imagine being a divine mother propped up in a birthing chair giving birth to children without number.