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	<title>Comments on: Where have all the apostates gone?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/15/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/15/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Owen West III</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/15/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62235</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Owen West III]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jan 2007 07:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62235</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow!  I posted here only because I get the second highest hits from this site and I wanted to know more about it.  Kevin, your words brought tears to my eyes.  Yes, I am very much still Catholic.  Iâ€™m back teaching RCIA again this year.  We have a class of 12 adults.  Over the years I&#039;ve helped over 50 adults prepare to receive the sacraments.

Here is the direct link to the page that talks about my journey of faith, the page that Kevin tried to point you to in his post:  http://truthseeker.tripod.com/LIFECHANGED.html

I can&#039;t tell you how surprised I was to find myself drawn to Catholicism, which in my conservative Mormon upbringing was the Church of Satan as we can read (or as it was read to me as a child) in I Nephi 14.

I owe much to Kevin in my journey of faith in teaching me Hebrew and giving me the chance to see that the Bible was not as badly translated as I had been raised to believe.  Thank you.

I want you all to know how very sad I became when I went to Rome and stepped into St. Peterâ€™s through the Porta Santa in 2000.  Why?  Because I believe the construction of that building was the spark that ignited the divisions in the Body of Christ in the West.  Without that building we could very well all be Catholic today.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow!  I posted here only because I get the second highest hits from this site and I wanted to know more about it.  Kevin, your words brought tears to my eyes.  Yes, I am very much still Catholic.  Iâ€™m back teaching RCIA again this year.  We have a class of 12 adults.  Over the years I&#8217;ve helped over 50 adults prepare to receive the sacraments.</p>
<p>Here is the direct link to the page that talks about my journey of faith, the page that Kevin tried to point you to in his post:  <a href="http://truthseeker.tripod.com/LIFECHANGED.html" rel="nofollow">http://truthseeker.tripod.com/LIFECHANGED.html</a></p>
<p>I can&#8217;t tell you how surprised I was to find myself drawn to Catholicism, which in my conservative Mormon upbringing was the Church of Satan as we can read (or as it was read to me as a child) in I Nephi 14.</p>
<p>I owe much to Kevin in my journey of faith in teaching me Hebrew and giving me the chance to see that the Bible was not as badly translated as I had been raised to believe.  Thank you.</p>
<p>I want you all to know how very sad I became when I went to Rome and stepped into St. Peterâ€™s through the Porta Santa in 2000.  Why?  Because I believe the construction of that building was the spark that ignited the divisions in the Body of Christ in the West.  Without that building we could very well all be Catholic today.</p>
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		<title>By: Owen West III</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/15/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62234</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Owen West III]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jan 2007 06:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62234</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have found that Catholicism is the fullness of Christianity.  I have been Catholic now for about 16 years.  I help to teach other adults interested in becoming Catholic in my parish.  I help moderate an exmormon-catholic group on yahoo with over 100 members.  There is life after Mormonism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have found that Catholicism is the fullness of Christianity.  I have been Catholic now for about 16 years.  I help to teach other adults interested in becoming Catholic in my parish.  I help moderate an exmormon-catholic group on yahoo with over 100 members.  There is life after Mormonism.</p>
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		<title>By: rleonard</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/15/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62233</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rleonard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62233</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#71

Its true.  It started with a letter to Elder Scott.  Elder Scott called him and they started meeting regularly.  Then the FP started to respond to his letters as well.  Pretty much ignore that counsel to not send letters to the FP Q12 is the lesson I took from my friends exp.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#71</p>
<p>Its true.  It started with a letter to Elder Scott.  Elder Scott called him and they started meeting regularly.  Then the FP started to respond to his letters as well.  Pretty much ignore that counsel to not send letters to the FP Q12 is the lesson I took from my friends exp.</p>
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		<title>By: DavidH</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/15/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62232</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DavidH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62232</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I had a much easier time holding onto the Church in spite of doubts when I had a firm conviction of Godâ€™s love.&quot;

I agree that a conviction of God&#039;s love and mercy and salvation is core to religious experience and community.

&quot;Mormonism puts the question &#039;Which is the true Church?&#039; at the center of all religious inquiry.&quot;

I think this is accurate and unfortunate.  To observe how accurate it is, listen to the typical, uncoached testimony of a primary child, which is almost always two statements: &quot;I know the Church is true and I love my family.&quot;

It is wonderful that the second statement, about love of family, is part of a typical testimony of a child (even though, for some reason, some Church leaders have implied that expressions of love and thanks are not really part of a &quot;true testimony&quot;).

I have some reservations about the first statement--the Church is true--being the &lt;em&gt;core&lt;/em&gt; of a testimony, rather than an appendage or a part of it.

To me, as suggested above, a key part of my religious conviction and communion is a faith, hope and quiet assurance of God&#039;s love for me personally with all my faults, and for each and every one of God&#039;s children and creations.

Through my own life&#039;s experiences, my views of God and the Church have changed.  That is, at one time I believed in God because I believed in the Church.  The Church was almost a &quot;mediator&quot; between God and me.  At this point in my life,  however, I believe in the Church because I believe in God and God&#039;s love.  That is, I believe this is where God would have me be in my journey of life and faith.  I believe that God loves me warts and all and, accordingly, I feel much more comfortable embracing the humanity and divinity of God&#039;s Church, warts and all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I had a much easier time holding onto the Church in spite of doubts when I had a firm conviction of Godâ€™s love.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree that a conviction of God&#8217;s love and mercy and salvation is core to religious experience and community.</p>
<p>&#8220;Mormonism puts the question &#8216;Which is the true Church?&#8217; at the center of all religious inquiry.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think this is accurate and unfortunate.  To observe how accurate it is, listen to the typical, uncoached testimony of a primary child, which is almost always two statements: &#8220;I know the Church is true and I love my family.&#8221;</p>
<p>It is wonderful that the second statement, about love of family, is part of a typical testimony of a child (even though, for some reason, some Church leaders have implied that expressions of love and thanks are not really part of a &#8220;true testimony&#8221;).</p>
<p>I have some reservations about the first statement&#8211;the Church is true&#8211;being the <em>core</em> of a testimony, rather than an appendage or a part of it.</p>
<p>To me, as suggested above, a key part of my religious conviction and communion is a faith, hope and quiet assurance of God&#8217;s love for me personally with all my faults, and for each and every one of God&#8217;s children and creations.</p>
<p>Through my own life&#8217;s experiences, my views of God and the Church have changed.  That is, at one time I believed in God because I believed in the Church.  The Church was almost a &#8220;mediator&#8221; between God and me.  At this point in my life,  however, I believe in the Church because I believe in God and God&#8217;s love.  That is, I believe this is where God would have me be in my journey of life and faith.  I believe that God loves me warts and all and, accordingly, I feel much more comfortable embracing the humanity and divinity of God&#8217;s Church, warts and all.</p>
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		<title>By: anonymusing</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/15/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62231</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anonymusing]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Actually, quite a number of other Christian denominations get around this by doubting ordinances/sacraments or even explicit belief in Christ are necessary for salvation.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

yes, my point exactly.  either it&#039;s all true and the ordinances and sacraments and keys are all necessary for salvation, or none of it&#039;s true and we just made it up.  If it&#039;s all made up, that suggests to me either God doesn&#039;t care, or God doesn&#039;t exist.  Thus, if I were to reject mormonism, I&#039;d have a hard time accepting other christian religions as more true.

That said, I could see how someone might accept mormonism was made up, while some other christian denomination wasn&#039;t, I&#039;d just have a hard time with it myself at this point in my religious evolution.

Kiskilili--I&#039;m with you there on the emotional turmoil of some doctrines.  I&#039;ve followed some of your posts in other forums, and while I haven&#039;t struggled with the same issues I see where you&#039;re coming from and I can appreciate your responses.

(sorry to interrupt the sacred cow/mormonism as a video game conversation going on, entertaining as it is--I was hosting a party last night and so couldn&#039;t contribute to the discussion earlier)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Actually, quite a number of other Christian denominations get around this by doubting ordinances/sacraments or even explicit belief in Christ are necessary for salvation.</p></blockquote>
<p>yes, my point exactly.  either it&#8217;s all true and the ordinances and sacraments and keys are all necessary for salvation, or none of it&#8217;s true and we just made it up.  If it&#8217;s all made up, that suggests to me either God doesn&#8217;t care, or God doesn&#8217;t exist.  Thus, if I were to reject mormonism, I&#8217;d have a hard time accepting other christian religions as more true.</p>
<p>That said, I could see how someone might accept mormonism was made up, while some other christian denomination wasn&#8217;t, I&#8217;d just have a hard time with it myself at this point in my religious evolution.</p>
<p>Kiskilili&#8211;I&#8217;m with you there on the emotional turmoil of some doctrines.  I&#8217;ve followed some of your posts in other forums, and while I haven&#8217;t struggled with the same issues I see where you&#8217;re coming from and I can appreciate your responses.</p>
<p>(sorry to interrupt the sacred cow/mormonism as a video game conversation going on, entertaining as it is&#8211;I was hosting a party last night and so couldn&#8217;t contribute to the discussion earlier)</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Evans</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/15/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62230</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Evans]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sean, anyone who reads Hugh Nibley knows there is no Secret Cow Level, despite what Facsimile No. 3 says.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean, anyone who reads Hugh Nibley knows there is no Secret Cow Level, despite what Facsimile No. 3 says.</p>
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		<title>By: gst</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/15/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62229</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gst]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62229</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;my in the closet at the time gay best man at my wedding has been treated well by the church according to him. He gets to meet with apostles etc. FP members answer his letters call him etc&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I was wondering what I had to do to get the First Presidency to answer my letters.  Now to go get sufficiently drunk...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>my in the closet at the time gay best man at my wedding has been treated well by the church according to him. He gets to meet with apostles etc. FP members answer his letters call him etc</p></blockquote>
<p>I was wondering what I had to do to get the First Presidency to answer my letters.  Now to go get sufficiently drunk&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/15/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62228</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jun 2006 04:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62228</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hold on to Wirt&#039;s Leg when you find it.  You&#039;ll need it to open the portal to the Secret Cow Level.  But anyone who paid attention during their own endownment already knows that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hold on to Wirt&#8217;s Leg when you find it.  You&#8217;ll need it to open the portal to the Secret Cow Level.  But anyone who paid attention during their own endownment already knows that.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth R.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/15/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62227</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Seth R.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jun 2006 01:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62227</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re #63 Sean,

An expansion pack huh?

So ...

You discovered any cheats or secret levels? And do you know where to find Wirt&#039;s Leg?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #63 Sean,</p>
<p>An expansion pack huh?</p>
<p>So &#8230;</p>
<p>You discovered any cheats or secret levels? And do you know where to find Wirt&#8217;s Leg?</p>
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		<title>By: greenfrog</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/15/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62226</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[greenfrog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jun 2006 00:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/06/where-have-all-the-apostates-gone/#comment-62226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MikeinWeHo wrote: &quot;...but Iâ€™d rather spend my time ... going to yoga class on Sundays.&quot;

This is me, too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MikeinWeHo wrote: &#8220;&#8230;but Iâ€™d rather spend my time &#8230; going to yoga class on Sundays.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is me, too.</p>
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