Abortion: 22% favor vs. 40% favor (about 2:1)
SSM: 11% favor vs. 38% favor (about 3.5:1, but quadruple is more fun to say).

So if a hypothetical liberal or conservative views SSM as being a large part of what it means to be conservative, then, for that person, the religious divide between liberals and conservatives is obvious.

Under no condition, of course, are the two types of liberalism the same, nor has anybody except JNS’s straw-Adam ever contended that they were. Just as economic and social liberalism differ from each other and from judicial liberalism and who knows what else.

I guess I’m just slow. From your numbers, I don’t see where you get a 2 to 1 ratio or a 4 to 1 ratio.

You’re a never-ending font of bizarrity. I printed that bear one up. We’ll see if I can work it into a lecture.

JNS,

“and the fact that it is stronger than the overall liberal-conservative scale suggests that you are over-privileging these two issues.”

I’m basically talking about why some people might view the correlation as strong but others as weak– namely if some see liberal and coservative as being largely about certain social issues like the ones I noted, while others see it as being about a much broader range of issues (like the 7-point scale would pick up). If some do this, then there will be a stronger correlation under their definition because they are not using the generic, subjective definition, but rather using more objective but narrow criterion based on certain issues.

Is that a better way or worse way? I don’t know. Mostly it is just a different way that gets at different things. But it does explain why some see the correlation as strong while others don’t.

Frank MacIntyre and HP/JDC, if you thought the bear prom cartoon was good, you’ll love this one. (That’s one I posted on M* as being representative as conflicts between Daniel Peterson and others. The participant who has been called chicken-head represents Daniel Peterson, in my interpretation.)

I just don’t know if your #121 adds very much to the conversation. There is still a relationship–and the fact that it is stronger than the overall liberal-conservative scale suggests that you are over-privileging these two issues. But also note that a huge number of people would be miscategorized by failing to distinguish between theological and political liberals.

This discussion, of course, can’t reasonably be about whether there are connections between religion and politics. Of course there are. The discussion is about whether those connections are strong enough to justify equating the two concepts. And the survey evidence–including your new intervention, which I find conceptually tricky–clearly show that the concepts are distinct. Sizeable numbers are conservative on one scale and not on the other, etc.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion!

Here’s another way of thinking about it. Supppose the liberal/conservative scale is a little bit too amorphous, and thus people self-categorize in ways that others might find questionable. So suppose a hypothetical P. liberal defines “liberal” as

1. Supporting government funding of abortions or
2. Supporting gay marriage.

Among those who take the Bible literally: 22% favor 1 and 11% favor 2.

Among those who do not take the Bible literally (but still believe it): 40% favor 1 and 38% favor 2.

Thus the Political liberalism of the Religious liberals is double on the first and quadruple on the second. The liberal would probably, based on these sorts of litmus tests, see that there is a rather strong relation, especially if they saw gay marriage as a key topic as opposed to, for example, tax policy, where the relationship is probably quite weak.