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	<title>Comments on: The two Abrahams</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/14/the-two-abrahams/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/14/the-two-abrahams/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: gst</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/14/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108821</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gst]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 05:42:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108821</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;If Abraham bargained for the lives of the wicked Sodomites, whom we can all agree had it coming...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Finally, someone on BCC comes out unequivocally against sodomites!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If Abraham bargained for the lives of the wicked Sodomites, whom we can all agree had it coming&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Finally, someone on BCC comes out unequivocally against sodomites!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hellmut</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/14/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108820</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hellmut]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 01:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108820</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Did anyone see this weeks installment of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pbs.org/faithandreason/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Faith and Reason&lt;/a&gt; on PBS?

The guest was &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.anneprovoost.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Anne Provost&lt;/a&gt; who looked at God from the perspective of a drowned child during Noah&#039;s flood.

From memory, I was particular impressed with what Provoost had to say about responsibility, faith, and transcendence.

To Provoost, it is important that we acknowlege that God is within us.  That way we have to take responsibility for our faith.  If we see God as an external authority, on the other hand, then faith suspends our conscience too often.

That reverberated with me.  From my mission, I know that I was willing to do things because people who had &quot;authority&quot; demanded them in the name of God.  I never would have done them if I had to take responsibility for them.

A good example was pretending to do a survey during street contacting.  There are other things that I refused to do, thank heavens, such as exploiting refugees for number games.

In the end, I have concluded that we are responsible for our lives.  I have to determine the difference between right and wrong.  I have to pay my bills, feed my children, and respect my friends.  Whatever leaders may say, it&#039;s no excuse when I hurt others or myself.

We might have overcome racism, for example, a lot faster in the Mormon experience if we had not been pretending that it was the will of God rather than the prejudice of mortals (see Prince&#039;s McKay biography).

Anyways, there might be transcript of Provoost&#039;s interview on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pbs.org/faithandreason/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Faith and Reason&lt;/a&gt; website soon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did anyone see this weeks installment of <a href="http://www.pbs.org/faithandreason/" rel="nofollow">Faith and Reason</a> on PBS?</p>
<p>The guest was <a href="http://www.anneprovoost.com/" rel="nofollow">Anne Provost</a> who looked at God from the perspective of a drowned child during Noah&#8217;s flood.</p>
<p>From memory, I was particular impressed with what Provoost had to say about responsibility, faith, and transcendence.</p>
<p>To Provoost, it is important that we acknowlege that God is within us.  That way we have to take responsibility for our faith.  If we see God as an external authority, on the other hand, then faith suspends our conscience too often.</p>
<p>That reverberated with me.  From my mission, I know that I was willing to do things because people who had &#8220;authority&#8221; demanded them in the name of God.  I never would have done them if I had to take responsibility for them.</p>
<p>A good example was pretending to do a survey during street contacting.  There are other things that I refused to do, thank heavens, such as exploiting refugees for number games.</p>
<p>In the end, I have concluded that we are responsible for our lives.  I have to determine the difference between right and wrong.  I have to pay my bills, feed my children, and respect my friends.  Whatever leaders may say, it&#8217;s no excuse when I hurt others or myself.</p>
<p>We might have overcome racism, for example, a lot faster in the Mormon experience if we had not been pretending that it was the will of God rather than the prejudice of mortals (see Prince&#8217;s McKay biography).</p>
<p>Anyways, there might be transcript of Provoost&#8217;s interview on the <a href="http://www.pbs.org/faithandreason/" rel="nofollow">Faith and Reason</a> website soon.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: HP/JDC</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/14/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108819</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HP/JDC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 23:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108819</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, Mark.  I&#039;ll check it and reply.  I am sometimes a bit slow in response.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Mark.  I&#8217;ll check it and reply.  I am sometimes a bit slow in response.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark Butler</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/14/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108818</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Butler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 23:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108818</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[HP, I emailed you at the specified address, and do not appear to have been favored with a reply.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HP, I emailed you at the specified address, and do not appear to have been favored with a reply.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: HP/JDC</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/14/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108817</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HP/JDC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 15:45:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108817</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JaredE,
I don&#039;t know how detailed you want to get, but I like the translation and the notes in the HarperCollins Study Bible, especially as a means to introducing yourself to biblical criticism.

DavidH,
That is an interesting take (particularly since we know that there is long tradition of human sacrifice in Canaanite culture).  Thank you for sharing it.  I can understand it as a theological reason for including the story, but I agree that it doesn&#039;t really help us understand Abraham in this case.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JaredE,<br />
I don&#8217;t know how detailed you want to get, but I like the translation and the notes in the HarperCollins Study Bible, especially as a means to introducing yourself to biblical criticism.</p>
<p>DavidH,<br />
That is an interesting take (particularly since we know that there is long tradition of human sacrifice in Canaanite culture).  Thank you for sharing it.  I can understand it as a theological reason for including the story, but I agree that it doesn&#8217;t really help us understand Abraham in this case.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ann</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/14/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108816</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 13:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108816</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I argue with God all the time.  Sometimes I win and sometimes he does

Some of you know how that has turned out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I argue with God all the time.  Sometimes I win and sometimes he does</p>
<p>Some of you know how that has turned out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DavidH</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/14/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108815</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DavidH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jul 2006 00:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108815</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jared,

I like Everett Fox&#039;s translation and notes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jared,</p>
<p>I like Everett Fox&#8217;s translation and notes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DavidH</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/14/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108814</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DavidH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jul 2006 00:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108814</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I lean toward Sid&#039;s interpretation in that I think a key lesson from the story is that unlike the gods worshipped by some other peoples, Yahweh did not require human sacrifice.

Abraham&#039;s willingness to sacrifice Isaac showed that the absence of human sacrifice in Yahweh worship was not because Yahweh&#039;s worshipers were &quot;chicken&quot; or &quot;less willing to sacrifice&quot; than the worshipers of other gods.  It was because Yahweh did not wish His worshipers to do so, and even sent an angel to underscore that point and put a stop to the attempt.

Of course, this lesson could be derived from the story whether the attempted sacrific was at Abraham&#039;s instigation or whether it was at God&#039;s, as a test/demonstration to other peoples of the commitment of His followers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I lean toward Sid&#8217;s interpretation in that I think a key lesson from the story is that unlike the gods worshipped by some other peoples, Yahweh did not require human sacrifice.</p>
<p>Abraham&#8217;s willingness to sacrifice Isaac showed that the absence of human sacrifice in Yahweh worship was not because Yahweh&#8217;s worshipers were &#8220;chicken&#8221; or &#8220;less willing to sacrifice&#8221; than the worshipers of other gods.  It was because Yahweh did not wish His worshipers to do so, and even sent an angel to underscore that point and put a stop to the attempt.</p>
<p>Of course, this lesson could be derived from the story whether the attempted sacrific was at Abraham&#8217;s instigation or whether it was at God&#8217;s, as a test/demonstration to other peoples of the commitment of His followers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jared E.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/14/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108813</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jared E.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jul 2006 00:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108813</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Since were on the subject of Genesis, can one of you all-knowing scholars recommend a great book on the Pentateuch, containing good textual criticism and all?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since were on the subject of Genesis, can one of you all-knowing scholars recommend a great book on the Pentateuch, containing good textual criticism and all?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mark Butler</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/14/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108812</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Butler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 23:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/07/the-two-abrahams/#comment-108812</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I said it often doesn&#039;t make complete sense, and only because we do not know all of the details.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I said it often doesn&#8217;t make complete sense, and only because we do not know all of the details.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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