Comments on: “The Scientology Rule”; Or, Don’t Be Cultish! http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/06/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/ A Mormon Blog Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:39:41 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Faith-Promoting Rumor » Blog Archive » The TK Smoothie Rule http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/06/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50986 Faith-Promoting Rumor » Blog Archive » The TK Smoothie Rule Tue, 19 Dec 2006 04:01:21 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50986 [...] In light of Ronan’s helpful rules on cultish behavior and public orthodoxy, my brother and I have developed yet another rule by which to measure our collective worth; especially in light of our place among the religions of the world. Introducing The TK Smoothie Rule. [...] [...] In light of Ronan’s helpful rules on cultish behavior and public orthodoxy, my brother and I have developed yet another rule by which to measure our collective worth; especially in light of our place among the religions of the world. Introducing The TK Smoothie Rule. [...]

]]> By: Revoke “Scientology Rule” « ABEV: a bird’s eye view http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/06/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50985 Revoke “Scientology Rule” « ABEV: a bird’s eye view Fri, 01 Dec 2006 22:52:16 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50985 [...] Six weeks ago, a post appeared on By Common Consent proposing a “Scientology Rule” by which Latter-day Saint bloggers and, presumably, even non-blogger Latter-day Saints could measure themselves to determine whether they are appearing cultish to outside observers: If your religious behaviours are such that if practiced by a Scientologist and observed by you would seem cultish, reevaluate them pronto! The best way to imagine this is to place our behaviours in the context of Scientology. [...] [...] Six weeks ago, a post appeared on By Common Consent proposing a “Scientology Rule” by which Latter-day Saint bloggers and, presumably, even non-blogger Latter-day Saints could measure themselves to determine whether they are appearing cultish to outside observers: If your religious behaviours are such that if practiced by a Scientologist and observed by you would seem cultish, reevaluate them pronto! The best way to imagine this is to place our behaviours in the context of Scientology. [...]

]]> By: Frank McIntyre http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/06/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50984 Frank McIntyre Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:15:39 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50984 "Starfoxy, Frank doesn’t have a tongue — or a cheek, for that matter. All there is are wheels, gears and tin foil around his robot heart." Steve has finally figured me out. “Starfoxy, Frank doesn’t have a tongue — or a cheek, for that matter. All there is are wheels, gears and tin foil around his robot heart.”

Steve has finally figured me out.

]]> By: tluck http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/06/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50983 tluck Mon, 09 Oct 2006 18:50:40 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50983 Pay, pray, obey...Nope. We're not cultish at all...Those in glass houses should never throw stones... Pay, pray, obey…Nope. We’re not cultish at all…Those in glass houses should never throw stones…

]]> By: RoastedTomatoes http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/06/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50982 RoastedTomatoes Mon, 09 Oct 2006 18:26:30 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50982 Starfoxy #113, that's actually not that hard to work out. I don't have references here at work, but I promise them tonight, or others with better access can provide them. There's some historical evidence that, in the days immediately before his death, Joseph Smith renounced polygamy, the temple endowment, and the political kingdom of God. In response to this evidence, Brigham Young (in one of the Utah sermons recorded in the Journal of Discourses) explained that Joseph Smith never claimed to have felt the Spirit once during the last few days before his death. If we want to think that Joseph Smith died for teaching something he shouldn't have taught, the history suggests that the teaching might have been a revocation of the secret doctrines of Nauvoo. Other evidence suggests that Joseph himself felt his death was due to rejecting a prompting from the Spirit to flee from Nauvoo, instead returning to the city on the request of his wife and friends. So we could also credit his death to a misdeed, in place of an erroneous teaching. Or we could credit his death to the massive political and economic dislocations that the Mormons produced in Illinois society, in conjunction with the rage connected with rumors of polygamy, theocracy, forgery, and so forth. Starfoxy #113, that’s actually not that hard to work out. I don’t have references here at work, but I promise them tonight, or others with better access can provide them. There’s some historical evidence that, in the days immediately before his death, Joseph Smith renounced polygamy, the temple endowment, and the political kingdom of God. In response to this evidence, Brigham Young (in one of the Utah sermons recorded in the Journal of Discourses) explained that Joseph Smith never claimed to have felt the Spirit once during the last few days before his death. If we want to think that Joseph Smith died for teaching something he shouldn’t have taught, the history suggests that the teaching might have been a revocation of the secret doctrines of Nauvoo.

Other evidence suggests that Joseph himself felt his death was due to rejecting a prompting from the Spirit to flee from Nauvoo, instead returning to the city on the request of his wife and friends. So we could also credit his death to a misdeed, in place of an erroneous teaching.

Or we could credit his death to the massive political and economic dislocations that the Mormons produced in Illinois society, in conjunction with the rage connected with rumors of polygamy, theocracy, forgery, and so forth.

]]> By: Ben http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/06/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50981 Ben Mon, 09 Oct 2006 17:20:13 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50981 There are several interesting things about the "prophet can't lead us astray" statements. First is that there are variations. "I will give you a key that will never rust. If you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray." (From recollection of William G. Nelson, in Young Women's Journal 17 (December 1906): 543. Ezra T. Clark recalled: "I heard the Prophet Joseph say he would give the Saints a key whereby they would never be led away or deceived, and that was: the Lord would never suffer the majority of this people to be led away or deceived by imposters, nor would he allow the records of this Church to fall into the hands of the enemy." (Improvement Era 5 (January 1902): 202. Secondly, statements such as this start appearing after the RLDS split and grow as RLDS missionaries start coming to Utah and accusing JOseph of being a fallen prophet and Brigham and the 12 of leading them astray. There's a distinct historical context for these statements, and it doesn't have to do with infallibility on a word-by-word basis. There are several interesting things about the “prophet can’t lead us astray” statements. First is that there are variations.

“I will give you a key that will never rust. If you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.” (From recollection of William G. Nelson, in Young Women’s Journal 17 (December 1906): 543.

Ezra T. Clark recalled: “I heard the Prophet Joseph say he would give the Saints a key whereby they would never be led away or deceived, and that was: the Lord would never suffer the majority of this people to be led away or deceived by imposters, nor would he allow the records of this Church to fall into the hands of the enemy.” (Improvement Era 5 (January 1902): 202.

Secondly, statements such as this start appearing after the RLDS split and grow as RLDS missionaries start coming to Utah and accusing JOseph of being a fallen prophet and Brigham and the 12 of leading them astray.

There’s a distinct historical context for these statements, and it doesn’t have to do with infallibility on a word-by-word basis.

]]> By: HP/JDC http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/06/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50980 HP/JDC Mon, 09 Oct 2006 17:15:23 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50980 Yeah, but if it is God, can it done any other way than "benignly"? Yeah, but if it is God, can it done any other way than “benignly”?

]]> By: Starfoxy http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/06/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50979 Starfoxy Mon, 09 Oct 2006 17:05:51 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50979 Correction to 113: benignly = blithely Correction to 113: benignly = blithely

]]> By: Starfoxy http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/06/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50978 Starfoxy Mon, 09 Oct 2006 17:02:46 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50978 Okay, I'm glad you guys caught that. I was worried because the responses were so serious, and I'd hate for you guys to think I imagined God benignly striking down his Prophets. However, if such a doctrine <i>were</i> true, then one could occupy themselves trying to figure out which doctrine the Prophet started teaching that got him struck down, if any at all. Imagine the hours of bloggernacle fun that it could lead to! Okay, I’m glad you guys caught that. I was worried because the responses were so serious, and I’d hate for you guys to think I imagined God benignly striking down his Prophets.

However, if such a doctrine were true, then one could occupy themselves trying to figure out which doctrine the Prophet started teaching that got him struck down, if any at all. Imagine the hours of bloggernacle fun that it could lead to!

]]> By: Mark IV http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/06/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50977 Mark IV Mon, 09 Oct 2006 16:57:50 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/the-scientology-rule-or-dont-be-cultish/#comment-50977 I've always wondered how D&C 107:82 applies in discussions like this. A straightforward reading says to me that the president of the church can be excommunicated. I’ve always wondered how D&C 107:82 applies in discussions like this.

A straightforward reading says to me that the president of the church can be excommunicated.

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