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	<title>Comments on: Help! My Seminary kids have stumped me.</title>
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		<title>By: JA Benson</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/08/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51025</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JA Benson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 02:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51025</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Paula,
I am in total agreement with you. There are a bunch of loopy-slap-happy-sleep-deprived-kids (along with their parents) in our Church. I am a big believer in â€œquality not quantityâ€. I think that the excessive amount of  time our teenagers are expected to do at church was invented â€œback in the dayâ€ when kids didnâ€™t have a lot of homework, extra curricular actives, jobs etcâ€¦ to keep them out of trouble.

 A better use of the youthsâ€™ time would result in better preparation on their part.  I think that a lot of kids are not participating in some of the programs because it is so much that it is overwhelming to them.  I say this as a mom whose boys are/did in scouting (one Eagle and one Life), passing off their Duty to God, and attending Seminary.  A lot of their Church peers are not.  It is not because they arenâ€™t good kids, they are overwhelmed.  I think that it damages our youthâ€™s Church self-esteem when they donâ€™t think that they are not good enough if they donâ€™t do it all.

Sorry for the thread-jack Ronan,  I enjoyed your post.  I as usual have nothing intelligent to add :) Oh, btw Thanks for being a Seminary Teacher.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paula,<br />
I am in total agreement with you. There are a bunch of loopy-slap-happy-sleep-deprived-kids (along with their parents) in our Church. I am a big believer in â€œquality not quantityâ€. I think that the excessive amount of  time our teenagers are expected to do at church was invented â€œback in the dayâ€ when kids didnâ€™t have a lot of homework, extra curricular actives, jobs etcâ€¦ to keep them out of trouble.</p>
<p> A better use of the youthsâ€™ time would result in better preparation on their part.  I think that a lot of kids are not participating in some of the programs because it is so much that it is overwhelming to them.  I say this as a mom whose boys are/did in scouting (one Eagle and one Life), passing off their Duty to God, and attending Seminary.  A lot of their Church peers are not.  It is not because they arenâ€™t good kids, they are overwhelmed.  I think that it damages our youthâ€™s Church self-esteem when they donâ€™t think that they are not good enough if they donâ€™t do it all.</p>
<p>Sorry for the thread-jack Ronan,  I enjoyed your post.  I as usual have nothing intelligent to add :) Oh, btw Thanks for being a Seminary Teacher.</p>
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		<title>By: paula</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/08/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51024</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[paula]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 00:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51024</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JA Benson, I&#039;m assuming that &quot;homeowner&quot; slip comes from sleep deprivation.  We&#039;re not lucky enough to have breakfast available at our schools, so our son had to eat at 5:30, and then go till lunch at noon, but I think he probably found a chance to snack along the way.

I think we should use the 2nd and 3rd block of the 3 hour block for seminary. Since seminary boils down to perhaps 40 productive minutes each day, and Friday was often a goof off day, they really don&#039;t need to replace that full time slot. They could have one other meeting one evening, or even early morning, a week, and that would do it. You wouldn&#039;t have to do the opening and closing prayer  and song and devotional five times a week, just once or twice and that would save time too. Yes, they wouldn&#039;t have the regular SS lessons, and YW/Ym, but I think those could be incorporated in the seminary lessons easily. The last time I taught the 14 year olds in SS, the lesson actually presented in the manual could be done in a few minutes.

My friend, the sleep researcher, says that there are some very good reasons that teenagers should be allowed to sleep later. When they are deprived of sleep their judgment is much worse-- so they are much more likely to engage in risky behavior. Teenagers as a group naturally have a harder time getting up early in the morning, and &quot;come alive&quot; at night. If you&#039;ve had a few in the house, you realize that this is a real phenomenon, not a cultural thing. It doesn&#039;t make a lot of sense to fight it. Maybe we could have late night seminary.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JA Benson, I&#8217;m assuming that &#8220;homeowner&#8221; slip comes from sleep deprivation.  We&#8217;re not lucky enough to have breakfast available at our schools, so our son had to eat at 5:30, and then go till lunch at noon, but I think he probably found a chance to snack along the way.</p>
<p>I think we should use the 2nd and 3rd block of the 3 hour block for seminary. Since seminary boils down to perhaps 40 productive minutes each day, and Friday was often a goof off day, they really don&#8217;t need to replace that full time slot. They could have one other meeting one evening, or even early morning, a week, and that would do it. You wouldn&#8217;t have to do the opening and closing prayer  and song and devotional five times a week, just once or twice and that would save time too. Yes, they wouldn&#8217;t have the regular SS lessons, and YW/Ym, but I think those could be incorporated in the seminary lessons easily. The last time I taught the 14 year olds in SS, the lesson actually presented in the manual could be done in a few minutes.</p>
<p>My friend, the sleep researcher, says that there are some very good reasons that teenagers should be allowed to sleep later. When they are deprived of sleep their judgment is much worse&#8211; so they are much more likely to engage in risky behavior. Teenagers as a group naturally have a harder time getting up early in the morning, and &#8220;come alive&#8221; at night. If you&#8217;ve had a few in the house, you realize that this is a real phenomenon, not a cultural thing. It doesn&#8217;t make a lot of sense to fight it. Maybe we could have late night seminary.</p>
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		<title>By: JA Benson</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/08/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51023</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JA Benson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 00:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51023</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[whoops.. homeowner--homework.  This is what sleep deprivation does to a person:)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>whoops.. homeowner&#8211;homework.  This is what sleep deprivation does to a person:)</p>
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		<title>By: JA Benson</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/08/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51022</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JA Benson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 23:21:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51022</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This year we started the second go round of early morning seminary at 6 AM.  I have to say as a graduate of released time seminary; I am not a fan of Early Morning Seminary. I have a headache from August to May. I would so love to only meet a couple of times a week.
 My son arrives at school a half an hour early and this is OK as hehas time to ask a teacher for help with any homeowner that he was stumped on. Also arising at 5 AM makes him nauseous; so he eats breakfast in the cafeteria at the normal hour of 7 AM.
In order to survive Early Morning Seminary; I do think that it is crazy that we budget as part of his weekly food money  Coke so thathe can survive the afternoon on a rush of caffeine.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This year we started the second go round of early morning seminary at 6 AM.  I have to say as a graduate of released time seminary; I am not a fan of Early Morning Seminary. I have a headache from August to May. I would so love to only meet a couple of times a week.<br />
 My son arrives at school a half an hour early and this is OK as hehas time to ask a teacher for help with any homeowner that he was stumped on. Also arising at 5 AM makes him nauseous; so he eats breakfast in the cafeteria at the normal hour of 7 AM.<br />
In order to survive Early Morning Seminary; I do think that it is crazy that we budget as part of his weekly food money  Coke so thathe can survive the afternoon on a rush of caffeine.</p>
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		<title>By: paula</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/08/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51021</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[paula]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 22:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51021</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey, I&#039;m in, and I know a few others who would join, including my friend who&#039;s the past president of the national sleep researchers association (I forget the actual name). It&#039;s the idea that we have to have seminary really early,without a good reason for it being so early that bugs me. Well, that and the fact that at least around here,they are pretty inflexible if a kid has some difficulty. My friend&#039;s son was having some school problems, and needed to retake a couple of classes, and couldn&#039;t fit them in, unless he took a zero period class. (This means the class starts at  6:30 at the high school.) He was told by the seminary folks that he couldn&#039;t do homestudy seminary, but should continue with early AM, and either graduate late, or take the class at the community college.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I&#8217;m in, and I know a few others who would join, including my friend who&#8217;s the past president of the national sleep researchers association (I forget the actual name). It&#8217;s the idea that we have to have seminary really early,without a good reason for it being so early that bugs me. Well, that and the fact that at least around here,they are pretty inflexible if a kid has some difficulty. My friend&#8217;s son was having some school problems, and needed to retake a couple of classes, and couldn&#8217;t fit them in, unless he took a zero period class. (This means the class starts at  6:30 at the high school.) He was told by the seminary folks that he couldn&#8217;t do homestudy seminary, but should continue with early AM, and either graduate late, or take the class at the community college.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronan</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/08/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51020</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ronan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 21:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51020</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Paula,

You and I can start a group, MAAMS: Mormons Against AM Seminary. Actually, I&#039;m only against mega-early Seminary. When my dad taught it, they split up all the kids from each school so they could meet close to their own school. This meant that he held class at 7.30, an entirely reasonable time. 6am is a Xenu-esque monstrosity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paula,</p>
<p>You and I can start a group, MAAMS: Mormons Against AM Seminary. Actually, I&#8217;m only against mega-early Seminary. When my dad taught it, they split up all the kids from each school so they could meet close to their own school. This meant that he held class at 7.30, an entirely reasonable time. 6am is a Xenu-esque monstrosity.</p>
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		<title>By: paula</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/08/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51019</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[paula]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 21:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51019</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Probably you had to be to seminary by 6:30. Here it&#039;s 6:30, but it was 6:00 a few years ago, when my oldest son attended. I never woke him for seminary or forced him to go. He went because he wanted to, but it was very hard on him. I  think he was crankier because he was constantly tired. He would get up earlier and earlier as the year went on, because he was too tired to get ready quickly. A lot of kids just slept in class. My son went to a &quot;school of choice&quot; in our district, and most of the LDS kids went to the regular high school. Probably about 100 kids went to the regular school, 25 to the one my son attended. The regular school was further away, and started earlier, so my son could walk to school, and then wait there for 45 minutes before the first class. We live far enough away that it didn&#039;t make sense to bring him home, then take him back. I know that the teachers who saw those kids there that early all the time thought it was cultish.   We parents asked to have one class for the kids at that school, starting later, so they weren&#039;t on campus so early, but were told that the kids who had to come to the early class would be upset by that. But they were out an hour earlier than the other school, and could go home and nap. And many of them had time to get home, and put on makeup, etc, before school,so I could never understand why it had to start at 6, rather than 6:15. It was that insistance that everyone had to come very early that seemed cultish to me. Now the district has another school of choice, which my other son attends, and it&#039;s turned out that seminary won&#039;t work with the bus system, and we&#039;ve been told that we can&#039;t do home study, since early AM is available in our area.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Probably you had to be to seminary by 6:30. Here it&#8217;s 6:30, but it was 6:00 a few years ago, when my oldest son attended. I never woke him for seminary or forced him to go. He went because he wanted to, but it was very hard on him. I  think he was crankier because he was constantly tired. He would get up earlier and earlier as the year went on, because he was too tired to get ready quickly. A lot of kids just slept in class. My son went to a &#8220;school of choice&#8221; in our district, and most of the LDS kids went to the regular high school. Probably about 100 kids went to the regular school, 25 to the one my son attended. The regular school was further away, and started earlier, so my son could walk to school, and then wait there for 45 minutes before the first class. We live far enough away that it didn&#8217;t make sense to bring him home, then take him back. I know that the teachers who saw those kids there that early all the time thought it was cultish.   We parents asked to have one class for the kids at that school, starting later, so they weren&#8217;t on campus so early, but were told that the kids who had to come to the early class would be upset by that. But they were out an hour earlier than the other school, and could go home and nap. And many of them had time to get home, and put on makeup, etc, before school,so I could never understand why it had to start at 6, rather than 6:15. It was that insistance that everyone had to come very early that seemed cultish to me. Now the district has another school of choice, which my other son attends, and it&#8217;s turned out that seminary won&#8217;t work with the bus system, and we&#8217;ve been told that we can&#8217;t do home study, since early AM is available in our area.</p>
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		<title>By: danithew</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/08/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51018</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[danithew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 12:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51018</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ronan, I&#039;d have to agree that 5am is very early to be getting up.  I seem to remember 6:30am being a time I associated with seminary.  Maybe it was the time we had to be there.

Maybe Bryce I. would remember better than I do how it worked for us ... I just remember that the Scarsdale kids seemed to have a slightly larger window of time ... so they could roll out of bed and come to seminary in pajamas if they wanted to.  I usually went straight from early morning seminary to school ... so that wasn&#039;t an option.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ronan, I&#8217;d have to agree that 5am is very early to be getting up.  I seem to remember 6:30am being a time I associated with seminary.  Maybe it was the time we had to be there.</p>
<p>Maybe Bryce I. would remember better than I do how it worked for us &#8230; I just remember that the Scarsdale kids seemed to have a slightly larger window of time &#8230; so they could roll out of bed and come to seminary in pajamas if they wanted to.  I usually went straight from early morning seminary to school &#8230; so that wasn&#8217;t an option.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronan</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/08/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51017</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ronan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 06:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51017</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Danithew,
Daily religious instruction for youth is, as you say, good and kosher, but when early morning Seminary entails getting up at 5am it violates 1) the Scientology Rule (if Scientology kids get up at 5am for daily religious instruction it sounds ultra-cultish), and b) the Ronan Enjoys His Bed Rule (in other words, I ain&#039;t getting up at 5 to truck my kids to Seminary when they&#039;re older!)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Danithew,<br />
Daily religious instruction for youth is, as you say, good and kosher, but when early morning Seminary entails getting up at 5am it violates 1) the Scientology Rule (if Scientology kids get up at 5am for daily religious instruction it sounds ultra-cultish), and b) the Ronan Enjoys His Bed Rule (in other words, I ain&#8217;t getting up at 5 to truck my kids to Seminary when they&#8217;re older!)</p>
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		<title>By: Gander</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/08/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51016</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gander]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 03:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/10/help-my-seminary-kids-have-stumped-me/#comment-51016</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve always wondered whether Malachi&#039;s promise could be fulfilled by Elijah&#039;s appearance to Christ on the mount of transfiguration.  Is this a standard non-LDS view on the scripture?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always wondered whether Malachi&#8217;s promise could be fulfilled by Elijah&#8217;s appearance to Christ on the mount of transfiguration.  Is this a standard non-LDS view on the scripture?</p>
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