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	<title>Comments on: Feet of Clay</title>
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	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/20/feet-of-clay/</link>
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		<title>By: MikeInWeHo</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/20/feet-of-clay/#comment-33583</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeInWeHo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 08:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re welcome, georgeD.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re welcome, georgeD.</p>
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		<title>By: georgeD</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/20/feet-of-clay/#comment-33582</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[georgeD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for proving my point (however indirectly) Mike in West Hollywood]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for proving my point (however indirectly) Mike in West Hollywood</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: MikeInWeHo</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/20/feet-of-clay/#comment-33581</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeInWeHo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Nov 2006 08:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, those homosexuals and drug addicts are sure to have some wacky notions about a man of lofty ideals like Haggard.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, those homosexuals and drug addicts are sure to have some wacky notions about a man of lofty ideals like Haggard.</p>
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		<title>By: georgeD</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/20/feet-of-clay/#comment-33580</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[georgeD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Nov 2006 15:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think his ideals were too lofty at all. Thank you for acknowledging that. I think that they were correct ideals. The only people that I can imagine who would say that they were too lofty *might* be homosexuals and drug addicts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think his ideals were too lofty at all. Thank you for acknowledging that. I think that they were correct ideals. The only people that I can imagine who would say that they were too lofty *might* be homosexuals and drug addicts.</p>
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		<title>By: Hellmut</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/20/feet-of-clay/#comment-33579</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hellmut]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Nov 2006 11:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[My apologies, George.  The only thing I meant to ascribe to you is the statement that Haggart failed because his ideals were too lofty.

That&#039;s just not the case.  Haggart cannot succeed because he is in denial.

The purpose of the post is to make sense of the Haggart story in light of two competing claims.  I am attempting to do that by exploring the implications of the claims in light of the gospels and the research on homosexuality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My apologies, George.  The only thing I meant to ascribe to you is the statement that Haggart failed because his ideals were too lofty.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s just not the case.  Haggart cannot succeed because he is in denial.</p>
<p>The purpose of the post is to make sense of the Haggart story in light of two competing claims.  I am attempting to do that by exploring the implications of the claims in light of the gospels and the research on homosexuality.</p>
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		<title>By: georgeD</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/20/feet-of-clay/#comment-33578</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[georgeD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[20 Yes his (Ted Haggards&#039;s) testament is suspect because of his behavior but his ideals are not. His testimony can be redeemed by acknowledging his sin and the correctness of his ideals in spite of his behavior. Were it not so, no once could bear witness of God. It is in confessing our sins that we truly acknowledge him.

21 Hellmut Please don&#039;t ascribe to me things I didn&#039;t say but which your imagination wishes I had said.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>20 Yes his (Ted Haggards&#8217;s) testament is suspect because of his behavior but his ideals are not. His testimony can be redeemed by acknowledging his sin and the correctness of his ideals in spite of his behavior. Were it not so, no once could bear witness of God. It is in confessing our sins that we truly acknowledge him.</p>
<p>21 Hellmut Please don&#8217;t ascribe to me things I didn&#8217;t say but which your imagination wishes I had said.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeInWeHo</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/20/feet-of-clay/#comment-33577</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeInWeHo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Nov 2006 15:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Well put, Hellmut.  Thanks for taking the time to post that thoughtful comment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well put, Hellmut.  Thanks for taking the time to post that thoughtful comment.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Hellmut</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/20/feet-of-clay/#comment-33576</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hellmut]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Nov 2006 14:28:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[George #19,

There are millions of men that live without prostitutes and methamphetamines, George.  That&#039;s not such a difficult ideal.  Therefore the claim that Haggard failed because his ideals were too challenging is wrong.

It is difficult, however, to live a balanced life if one is in denial about nature.  Haggardâ€™s denial is based on the notion that he knows the will of God.  Rejecting reason and observation Haggard elevates his imagination over Godâ€™s creation.

That attitude is self-destructive.  We should not blame God for Haggardâ€™s stupidity and arrogance. They are vices.  Humility and authenticity are ideals.

A man that ridicules evolution and sex education is not principled.  He is just backwards.  Had Haggard been more reasonable then he might have gotten into less trouble.

Haggard would not have married a woman whom he can never cherish as a husband.  He would not have needed to twist his mind into pretzels to pursue gay sex.  Less stress would have reduced the need for illegal substances.

Of course, Haggard also might have been less wealthy and admired.  Those neither validate us in the eyes of God nor are they principles, especially not if we make our living by demagoguing vulnerable minorities.

Jesus confronted the powerful.  He lived among the poor, broke bread with the publicans, and associated with prostitutes.  His gospel is about love.

Haggard was a businessman.  Christ is a servant.  Haggard is in denial.  Christ gives us the truth to set us free.  Haggard loathes himself.  Christ loves him.  Haggard persecutes those who are most like him.  Christ forgives us.

One way or another, we all fall short with respect to love.  Haggardâ€™s case stands out because his repentance merely requires reason.  The fact that reason appears to be out of Haggardâ€™s reach indicates that his upbringing has crippled his identity.

Haggard does not need to reject his ideals.  He needs to deal with his socialization.  Humility is the key.

Unlike imagination, reason and evidence are factors beyond us.  Justifying our ignorance of nature in terms of biblical literalism is a manifestation of naÃ¯ve arrogance.  Subjecting our opinions to the constraints of reason and evidence is a humble act.

Ignorance is neither heroic nor glorious.  Itâ€™s tragic.  Our ignorance does not reflect the will of God.  Often, submission to reason and evidence is a precondition to healing.  Engaging oneâ€™s socialization requires an effort that borders on the superhuman.  May be, thatâ€™s where the atonement comes in.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George #19,</p>
<p>There are millions of men that live without prostitutes and methamphetamines, George.  That&#8217;s not such a difficult ideal.  Therefore the claim that Haggard failed because his ideals were too challenging is wrong.</p>
<p>It is difficult, however, to live a balanced life if one is in denial about nature.  Haggardâ€™s denial is based on the notion that he knows the will of God.  Rejecting reason and observation Haggard elevates his imagination over Godâ€™s creation.</p>
<p>That attitude is self-destructive.  We should not blame God for Haggardâ€™s stupidity and arrogance. They are vices.  Humility and authenticity are ideals.</p>
<p>A man that ridicules evolution and sex education is not principled.  He is just backwards.  Had Haggard been more reasonable then he might have gotten into less trouble.</p>
<p>Haggard would not have married a woman whom he can never cherish as a husband.  He would not have needed to twist his mind into pretzels to pursue gay sex.  Less stress would have reduced the need for illegal substances.</p>
<p>Of course, Haggard also might have been less wealthy and admired.  Those neither validate us in the eyes of God nor are they principles, especially not if we make our living by demagoguing vulnerable minorities.</p>
<p>Jesus confronted the powerful.  He lived among the poor, broke bread with the publicans, and associated with prostitutes.  His gospel is about love.</p>
<p>Haggard was a businessman.  Christ is a servant.  Haggard is in denial.  Christ gives us the truth to set us free.  Haggard loathes himself.  Christ loves him.  Haggard persecutes those who are most like him.  Christ forgives us.</p>
<p>One way or another, we all fall short with respect to love.  Haggardâ€™s case stands out because his repentance merely requires reason.  The fact that reason appears to be out of Haggardâ€™s reach indicates that his upbringing has crippled his identity.</p>
<p>Haggard does not need to reject his ideals.  He needs to deal with his socialization.  Humility is the key.</p>
<p>Unlike imagination, reason and evidence are factors beyond us.  Justifying our ignorance of nature in terms of biblical literalism is a manifestation of naÃ¯ve arrogance.  Subjecting our opinions to the constraints of reason and evidence is a humble act.</p>
<p>Ignorance is neither heroic nor glorious.  Itâ€™s tragic.  Our ignorance does not reflect the will of God.  Often, submission to reason and evidence is a precondition to healing.  Engaging oneâ€™s socialization requires an effort that borders on the superhuman.  May be, thatâ€™s where the atonement comes in.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeInWeHo</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/20/feet-of-clay/#comment-33575</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeInWeHo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Nov 2006 05:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Actually, it does invalidate what he preached.  His former testimony is null and void.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, it does invalidate what he preached.  His former testimony is null and void.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: georgeD</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/20/feet-of-clay/#comment-33574</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[georgeD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Nov 2006 22:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[18 Ideals are not the problem? I am not sure I understand what you mean Hellmut. I think Ted Haggard&#039;s ideals (except for a certain lack of charity) were just fine. His capacity to live up to them was and is a problem but it doesn&#039;t invalidate his ideals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>18 Ideals are not the problem? I am not sure I understand what you mean Hellmut. I think Ted Haggard&#8217;s ideals (except for a certain lack of charity) were just fine. His capacity to live up to them was and is a problem but it doesn&#8217;t invalidate his ideals.</p>
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