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	<title>Comments on: Squash him?  Starve him?   Poison him?</title>
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		<title>By: miguel</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/27/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33766</link>
		<dc:creator>miguel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 23:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Don&#039;t get your temple undergarments in a bunch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t get your temple undergarments in a bunch.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/27/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33765</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 20:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33765</guid>
		<description>Fact is, the vast majority of Americans will not vote for a Mormon president. I wouldn&#039;t. Why not? Not bashing the Mormons, but the LDS religion is not orthodox. The Mormons state that only they have the true religion. This is bunk for one simple reason. I&#039;m an orthodox Lutheran and we adhere to a doctrine known as Sola Scriptura -- in effect, that only the Holy Bible is the innerent Word of God Himself. The Bible states plainly In Saint Matthew that the gates of hell will never prevail against the one true faith - Christianity. The Mormons dispute this in their pearl of great price in chapter one. Only the Bible is Word of God. The prophets were only unto Saint John, as God Himself stated. There is NO extra-Biblical revelation. None.

The above reasons are why orthodox Christians will never vote for a man who adheres to a religion that blatently throws what God Himself said to the wind. The Mormon claim that &quot;As man is now, God once was. As God is, man can become&quot; is patently false. There is one God. Orthodox Christians have read Isaiah 43 and 44.

Mormonism adds works to what Christ already did. John 19 states Christ, who IS God Himself, say &quot;it is finished&quot;. God already did what is required for us to achieve eternal life. Now, please don&#039;t misunderstand what I am saying. Saint Jamed DID say faith without works is dead, but Saint James was speaking to people who were already Christians. In other words, we do things that are pleasing to God not to warrant merit, but to please God alone. Our works will not in any way influence God. Saint Paul so eloquently point this out when he stated that our righteousness before God is filthy rags and that no one should boast about his works before God. We get to Heaven through Christ Jesus alone. Jesus is God Himself. Rad John 14:6. We do works only to bear good fruit, to show we are Christians, not to earn merit with God.
Mormons believe people can become gods. This is heresy. Mormons believe men are prophets in these days. The prophets were unto Saint John as God Himself has declared.
Mormons are just not going to get the votes required to put someone in the big chair.

Mormons reject the doctrine of the Holy Trinity by stating that they are three separate gods. There is but ONE triune God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The Father was not created, but was, is, and forever shall be. The Son was not created, but was begotten from the Father. The Holy Spirit was not created, nor begotten, but proceeds from the Father and Son. They are three-in-one. The Godhead is what has always been taught -- the One Triune God. Americans will not vote for someone who even remotely, possibly believes otherwise.
In my opinion, and, yes, I risked getting flamed here, but -- I believe in order to be elected to public office, one must be a believer - an orthodox believer. There is no room for anything less.
Alot of what I have stated will no doubt be thrown out with a grain of salt, but a reading of the Holy Bible will put what I have said in the light of truth. And no, the KJV is not the only version worth believing. The New American Standard is internationally recognized as being the closest to the original Hebrew and Greek texts. No Bible is perfectly translated. They Bible is the perfect, innerant Word of God translated by sinful men. There are bound to be some mistakes, but what matters is the heart of men. God judges our hearts more than anything else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fact is, the vast majority of Americans will not vote for a Mormon president. I wouldn&#8217;t. Why not? Not bashing the Mormons, but the LDS religion is not orthodox. The Mormons state that only they have the true religion. This is bunk for one simple reason. I&#8217;m an orthodox Lutheran and we adhere to a doctrine known as Sola Scriptura &#8212; in effect, that only the Holy Bible is the innerent Word of God Himself. The Bible states plainly In Saint Matthew that the gates of hell will never prevail against the one true faith &#8211; Christianity. The Mormons dispute this in their pearl of great price in chapter one. Only the Bible is Word of God. The prophets were only unto Saint John, as God Himself stated. There is NO extra-Biblical revelation. None.</p>
<p>The above reasons are why orthodox Christians will never vote for a man who adheres to a religion that blatently throws what God Himself said to the wind. The Mormon claim that &#8220;As man is now, God once was. As God is, man can become&#8221; is patently false. There is one God. Orthodox Christians have read Isaiah 43 and 44.</p>
<p>Mormonism adds works to what Christ already did. John 19 states Christ, who IS God Himself, say &#8220;it is finished&#8221;. God already did what is required for us to achieve eternal life. Now, please don&#8217;t misunderstand what I am saying. Saint Jamed DID say faith without works is dead, but Saint James was speaking to people who were already Christians. In other words, we do things that are pleasing to God not to warrant merit, but to please God alone. Our works will not in any way influence God. Saint Paul so eloquently point this out when he stated that our righteousness before God is filthy rags and that no one should boast about his works before God. We get to Heaven through Christ Jesus alone. Jesus is God Himself. Rad John 14:6. We do works only to bear good fruit, to show we are Christians, not to earn merit with God.<br />
Mormons believe people can become gods. This is heresy. Mormons believe men are prophets in these days. The prophets were unto Saint John as God Himself has declared.<br />
Mormons are just not going to get the votes required to put someone in the big chair.</p>
<p>Mormons reject the doctrine of the Holy Trinity by stating that they are three separate gods. There is but ONE triune God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The Father was not created, but was, is, and forever shall be. The Son was not created, but was begotten from the Father. The Holy Spirit was not created, nor begotten, but proceeds from the Father and Son. They are three-in-one. The Godhead is what has always been taught &#8212; the One Triune God. Americans will not vote for someone who even remotely, possibly believes otherwise.<br />
In my opinion, and, yes, I risked getting flamed here, but &#8212; I believe in order to be elected to public office, one must be a believer &#8211; an orthodox believer. There is no room for anything less.<br />
Alot of what I have stated will no doubt be thrown out with a grain of salt, but a reading of the Holy Bible will put what I have said in the light of truth. And no, the KJV is not the only version worth believing. The New American Standard is internationally recognized as being the closest to the original Hebrew and Greek texts. No Bible is perfectly translated. They Bible is the perfect, innerant Word of God translated by sinful men. There are bound to be some mistakes, but what matters is the heart of men. God judges our hearts more than anything else.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Evans</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/27/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33764</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 21:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33764</guid>
		<description>Rob, BCC&#039;s not your podium; your own site is.  Your last comment is bizarre, even on its own terms:except for Catholics, Mormons are unique on baptism and priesthood authority and therefore not Christian?  put the crack pipe down, now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob, BCC&#8217;s not your podium; your own site is.  Your last comment is bizarre, even on its own terms:except for Catholics, Mormons are unique on baptism and priesthood authority and therefore not Christian?  put the crack pipe down, now.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Lauer</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/27/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33763</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Lauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 21:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33763</guid>
		<description>Correction: A Luthern beccoming a Baptist would not HAVE to be baptised by immersion. One could join a Baptist church without being baptized at all. (Practices vary from one baptist congregtaion to another; each in autonomous.) And all Baptists recognize immersion baptism by any other Christian denomination. With the exception of Catholics, all Christian denominations accept one another&#039;s baptisms and ordinances. There is no concept of &quot;one true church&quot; (as in one true denomination) in Christianity; all denominations are part of the one universal church. With the exception of Catholics (and they are changing) Christians have no concept of Priesthood authority--that is, that God authorizes men in certain offices to perform ordinance, and that without that authority the ordinances are invalid. THAT is a unique LDS doctrine, and it is one of the major theological differences between LDS Mormonism and Christianity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction: A Luthern beccoming a Baptist would not HAVE to be baptised by immersion. One could join a Baptist church without being baptized at all. (Practices vary from one baptist congregtaion to another; each in autonomous.) And all Baptists recognize immersion baptism by any other Christian denomination. With the exception of Catholics, all Christian denominations accept one another&#8217;s baptisms and ordinances. There is no concept of &#8220;one true church&#8221; (as in one true denomination) in Christianity; all denominations are part of the one universal church. With the exception of Catholics (and they are changing) Christians have no concept of Priesthood authority&#8211;that is, that God authorizes men in certain offices to perform ordinance, and that without that authority the ordinances are invalid. THAT is a unique LDS doctrine, and it is one of the major theological differences between LDS Mormonism and Christianity.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Lauer</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/27/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33762</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Lauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 21:08:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33762</guid>
		<description>I think Andrew Sullivan has been totally fair in his posts about the LDS Church, Mormonism and Romney. In fact, he later comments this week have been positive BECAUSE he recognizes that Mormons are DIFFERENT from Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christians.

And he has quoted emails from devout Mormons, as well as former Mormons. I was one of the Mormons he quoted on his blog. I DEFENDED LDS Mormons as being NON-racist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Andrew Sullivan has been totally fair in his posts about the LDS Church, Mormonism and Romney. In fact, he later comments this week have been positive BECAUSE he recognizes that Mormons are DIFFERENT from Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christians.</p>
<p>And he has quoted emails from devout Mormons, as well as former Mormons. I was one of the Mormons he quoted on his blog. I DEFENDED LDS Mormons as being NON-racist.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeInWeHo</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/27/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33761</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeInWeHo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 15:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33761</guid>
		<description>Well put, Hellmut.  I agree with your last sentence completely.

You&#039;re over simplifying things when you say that &quot;Christians in Sullivan&#039;s sense recognize each other&#039;s baptisms.&quot;  A Lutheran who becomes a Baptist would have to be baptized by immersion, as just one example.  The Nicene creed is pretty much the bottom line though.  Denominations which reject that creed are typically considered &quot;non-Christian&quot; by the vast majority of Christendom.  That&#039;s why the J.W.&#039;s are similarly outcast.

The question becomes:  Who gets to decide who can properly be called a Christian ?  Jesus Christ decides.  However, since he&#039;s not giving case-by-case feedback at the moment, it really should be up to the individual.

This is where Sullivan becomes a hypocrite.  As a gay man, many (most?) Christians reject him as a fellow-believer due to his lifestyle choice.  Who is he to say Mormons aren&#039;t Christian due to their creedal choice?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well put, Hellmut.  I agree with your last sentence completely.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re over simplifying things when you say that &#8220;Christians in Sullivan&#8217;s sense recognize each other&#8217;s baptisms.&#8221;  A Lutheran who becomes a Baptist would have to be baptized by immersion, as just one example.  The Nicene creed is pretty much the bottom line though.  Denominations which reject that creed are typically considered &#8220;non-Christian&#8221; by the vast majority of Christendom.  That&#8217;s why the J.W.&#8217;s are similarly outcast.</p>
<p>The question becomes:  Who gets to decide who can properly be called a Christian ?  Jesus Christ decides.  However, since he&#8217;s not giving case-by-case feedback at the moment, it really should be up to the individual.</p>
<p>This is where Sullivan becomes a hypocrite.  As a gay man, many (most?) Christians reject him as a fellow-believer due to his lifestyle choice.  Who is he to say Mormons aren&#8217;t Christian due to their creedal choice?</p>
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		<title>By: Hellmut</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/27/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33760</link>
		<dc:creator>Hellmut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 12:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33760</guid>
		<description>Puny, Sullivan didn&#039;t say that Christians have to be sprinkled.  He said that Mormons and Christians do not recognize each other&#039;s baptisms.

&quot;Christians&quot; in Sullivan&#039;s sense recognize each other&#039;s baptisms.  Since Mormons do not recognize other Christian&#039;s baptism, Sullivan concludes that they are not &quot;Christians.&quot;

If you are baptized Lutheran or Pentecostal, for example, you won&#039;t have to be rebaptized when you join the Catholic Church.  That includes baptism by immersion if it were performed by Mennonites, for example.

Clearly, there is a bright line between Mormonism and the Nicean creeds.  We don&#039;t teach that we are the only true church for nothing.  It&#039;s only natural that adherents of the criticized faiths would respond with their own exclusive claims.

On the other hand, it is a little provincial to limit Christianity to the Niceans.  Christ and the Apostles were not Niceans.  Just as there are a lot of different ideas about Mormonism, one can be a Christian without being a Nicean.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Puny, Sullivan didn&#8217;t say that Christians have to be sprinkled.  He said that Mormons and Christians do not recognize each other&#8217;s baptisms.</p>
<p>&#8220;Christians&#8221; in Sullivan&#8217;s sense recognize each other&#8217;s baptisms.  Since Mormons do not recognize other Christian&#8217;s baptism, Sullivan concludes that they are not &#8220;Christians.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you are baptized Lutheran or Pentecostal, for example, you won&#8217;t have to be rebaptized when you join the Catholic Church.  That includes baptism by immersion if it were performed by Mennonites, for example.</p>
<p>Clearly, there is a bright line between Mormonism and the Nicean creeds.  We don&#8217;t teach that we are the only true church for nothing.  It&#8217;s only natural that adherents of the criticized faiths would respond with their own exclusive claims.</p>
<p>On the other hand, it is a little provincial to limit Christianity to the Niceans.  Christ and the Apostles were not Niceans.  Just as there are a lot of different ideas about Mormonism, one can be a Christian without being a Nicean.</p>
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		<title>By: Puny the Elder</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/27/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33759</link>
		<dc:creator>Puny the Elder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 10:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33759</guid>
		<description>Garments, Garments, Garments!  All of this discussion about Temple garments.  Who cares about the garments, who cares about the picture.  I sure don&#039;t.  It was the comment by Sullivan that Romney is not a Christian that I find so offensive.  How rude! So members of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints are not Christians.  And the justification he used was laughable he used the Mormon perception of the Trinity and also the baptism ritual (immersion instead of sprinkling).  The fact that Mormons recognize the Trinity as three distinct people who are ONE IN purpose instead of being just one person.  Well lets see when Jesus was baptized and a voice boomed out &quot;This is my son with whom I am well pleased&quot; I suppose it was just a vetriloquist act.  And people who were baptized the same way that Jesus was baptized would definately not qualify as Christians, blimey!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Garments, Garments, Garments!  All of this discussion about Temple garments.  Who cares about the garments, who cares about the picture.  I sure don&#8217;t.  It was the comment by Sullivan that Romney is not a Christian that I find so offensive.  How rude! So members of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints are not Christians.  And the justification he used was laughable he used the Mormon perception of the Trinity and also the baptism ritual (immersion instead of sprinkling).  The fact that Mormons recognize the Trinity as three distinct people who are ONE IN purpose instead of being just one person.  Well lets see when Jesus was baptized and a voice boomed out &#8220;This is my son with whom I am well pleased&#8221; I suppose it was just a vetriloquist act.  And people who were baptized the same way that Jesus was baptized would definately not qualify as Christians, blimey!</p>
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		<title>By: rob Lauer</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/27/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33758</link>
		<dc:creator>rob Lauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 07:29:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33758</guid>
		<description>Reform Mormonism is a newer denomination within world-wide Mormonism. It is registered in Washington state, as a religious denomination, but it is primarily a home-based religion.

It has no connection to the LDS Church; does not claim to be &quot;the only true church.&quot; Reform Mormonism is a religion of principles only. It&#039;s theology consists entirely of the Mormon Paradigm of Eternal Progression: &quot;As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may become.&quot; Conversion to Reform Mormonism does not consist of joining a church or submitting at any ordinance such as baptism. One becomes a Reform Mormon when one makes a personal covenant to emulate God and start on a path of personal Eternal Progression.

You can visit Reform Mormonism&#039;s central website (which includes links to other Reform Mormon websites) by clicking on to:

www.reformmormonism.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reform Mormonism is a newer denomination within world-wide Mormonism. It is registered in Washington state, as a religious denomination, but it is primarily a home-based religion.</p>
<p>It has no connection to the LDS Church; does not claim to be &#8220;the only true church.&#8221; Reform Mormonism is a religion of principles only. It&#8217;s theology consists entirely of the Mormon Paradigm of Eternal Progression: &#8220;As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may become.&#8221; Conversion to Reform Mormonism does not consist of joining a church or submitting at any ordinance such as baptism. One becomes a Reform Mormon when one makes a personal covenant to emulate God and start on a path of personal Eternal Progression.</p>
<p>You can visit Reform Mormonism&#8217;s central website (which includes links to other Reform Mormon websites) by clicking on to:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.reformmormonism.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.reformmormonism.org</a></p>
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		<title>By: MikeInWeHo</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/27/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33757</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeInWeHo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2006 05:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/11/squash-him-starve-him-poison-him/#comment-33757</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s a Reform Mormon, Rob?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s a Reform Mormon, Rob?</p>
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