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	<title>Comments on: States of Grace</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/22/states-of-grace/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/22/states-of-grace/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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		<title>By: any mouse</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/22/states-of-grace/#comment-51951</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[any mouse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jan 2007 19:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/states-of-grace/#comment-51951</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[okay, so dutcher SHOULD be in hiding...  we just watched &quot;the work and the story.&quot;  holy hunk o&#039; CRAP!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>okay, so dutcher SHOULD be in hiding&#8230;  we just watched &#8220;the work and the story.&#8221;  holy hunk o&#8217; CRAP!</p>
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		<title>By: DavidH</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/22/states-of-grace/#comment-51950</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DavidH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2007 04:35:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/states-of-grace/#comment-51950</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am not aware of any statement by any of the Brethren about any of Dutcher&#039;s films--and I am glad for that, so that we can decide whether we like the movies or not based on our own preferences.

I suspect that there are the same sort of divisions among the Brethren about the film as there is on the bloggernacle.

In some ways the film is a bit inflamatory (and certainly discomforting) by requiring Mormons who watch it to confront their own attitudes about sin and redemption in contexts that most of the mainstream believes or hopes do not (or should not) exist.

It forces us to confront issues like:

1.  Is redemption possible for a missionary who violates the law of chastity while a missionary and is sent home (most likely under Church discipline)?  This situation has occurred hundreds, if not thousands of times.

2.  Can there ever be a future in a romantic relationship begun in violation of mission rules &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; the law of chastity?  While this has occurred fewer times than the situation in #1 above, it has happened in at least one case of which I am aware (and the couple was later sealed in the temple), and probably many times.

3.  Is forgiveness or redemption possible for a person even tangentially involved in murder--especially after joining the Church?  Does Jesus&#039; atonement really extend that far?  I believe it does; I am sure there are substantial numbers of Mormons (and probably many leaders) who believe it does not and cannot.

4.  Is violating a mission rule ever justified?  Does it always lead to catastrophy?  Should it ever be &quot;glorified&quot;?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not aware of any statement by any of the Brethren about any of Dutcher&#8217;s films&#8211;and I am glad for that, so that we can decide whether we like the movies or not based on our own preferences.</p>
<p>I suspect that there are the same sort of divisions among the Brethren about the film as there is on the bloggernacle.</p>
<p>In some ways the film is a bit inflamatory (and certainly discomforting) by requiring Mormons who watch it to confront their own attitudes about sin and redemption in contexts that most of the mainstream believes or hopes do not (or should not) exist.</p>
<p>It forces us to confront issues like:</p>
<p>1.  Is redemption possible for a missionary who violates the law of chastity while a missionary and is sent home (most likely under Church discipline)?  This situation has occurred hundreds, if not thousands of times.</p>
<p>2.  Can there ever be a future in a romantic relationship begun in violation of mission rules <em>and</em> the law of chastity?  While this has occurred fewer times than the situation in #1 above, it has happened in at least one case of which I am aware (and the couple was later sealed in the temple), and probably many times.</p>
<p>3.  Is forgiveness or redemption possible for a person even tangentially involved in murder&#8211;especially after joining the Church?  Does Jesus&#8217; atonement really extend that far?  I believe it does; I am sure there are substantial numbers of Mormons (and probably many leaders) who believe it does not and cannot.</p>
<p>4.  Is violating a mission rule ever justified?  Does it always lead to catastrophy?  Should it ever be &#8220;glorified&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/22/states-of-grace/#comment-51949</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2007 01:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/states-of-grace/#comment-51949</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mike,

I think it would make a huge difference. We see this very phenomenon in the way an entire season of (insert show name) is sold out in a matter of hours merely because it is produced by the church and playing at the Conference Center Theater.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>I think it would make a huge difference. We see this very phenomenon in the way an entire season of (insert show name) is sold out in a matter of hours merely because it is produced by the church and playing at the Conference Center Theater.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeInWeHo</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/22/states-of-grace/#comment-51948</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeInWeHo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 00:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/states-of-grace/#comment-51948</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Imagine if one of the Brethren just made a quick comment to the effect that he really liked States of Grace.  That might change everything.  The Pope apparently saw The Passion Of The Christ and commented afterward &quot;It is how it was,&quot; and we all know how that movie worked out.  The LDS look to their leadership for cues on something like this, it seems.  Has the Church made any comments about Dutcher&#039;s films?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Imagine if one of the Brethren just made a quick comment to the effect that he really liked States of Grace.  That might change everything.  The Pope apparently saw The Passion Of The Christ and commented afterward &#8220;It is how it was,&#8221; and we all know how that movie worked out.  The LDS look to their leadership for cues on something like this, it seems.  Has the Church made any comments about Dutcher&#8217;s films?</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/22/states-of-grace/#comment-51947</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Dec 2006 04:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/states-of-grace/#comment-51947</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;This film SHOULD touch any audience member who has known the tender mercies of Jesus Christ.&quot;

This silly homogenization of aesthetics and pop-religion is the number one reason why LDS art has never gotten it&#039;s ass off the ground.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This film SHOULD touch any audience member who has known the tender mercies of Jesus Christ.&#8221;</p>
<p>This silly homogenization of aesthetics and pop-religion is the number one reason why LDS art has never gotten it&#8217;s ass off the ground.</p>
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		<title>By: Margaret Young</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/22/states-of-grace/#comment-51946</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Margaret Young]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Dec 2006 01:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/states-of-grace/#comment-51946</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My whole family loves _States of Grace_.  My husband, son and I have a family review in the upcoming _Irreantum_.  And we gave and received copies for Christmas.  My husband, in particular, fell in love with it.  He&#039;s in a stake presidency and has been learning about mercy in some very difficult settings.  This film touched him as no other has.  He has now seen it six times.

I actually do get concerned by the quick judgment passed not only on Dutcher but on his characters--the easy dismissal of the film by a reviewer on Amazon.com, for example, who left the movie halfway through and still felt he could review it.  (He knew the missionaries broke the rules and that was enough.)  This film SHOULD touch any audience member who has known the tender mercies of Jesus Christ.  I consider _States of Grace_ the best Mormon film yet made, and Dutcher still our best film Mormon maker.  Sadly, I don&#039;t know that we will see another LDS-themed film from him.  That is a huge loss.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My whole family loves _States of Grace_.  My husband, son and I have a family review in the upcoming _Irreantum_.  And we gave and received copies for Christmas.  My husband, in particular, fell in love with it.  He&#8217;s in a stake presidency and has been learning about mercy in some very difficult settings.  This film touched him as no other has.  He has now seen it six times.</p>
<p>I actually do get concerned by the quick judgment passed not only on Dutcher but on his characters&#8211;the easy dismissal of the film by a reviewer on Amazon.com, for example, who left the movie halfway through and still felt he could review it.  (He knew the missionaries broke the rules and that was enough.)  This film SHOULD touch any audience member who has known the tender mercies of Jesus Christ.  I consider _States of Grace_ the best Mormon film yet made, and Dutcher still our best film Mormon maker.  Sadly, I don&#8217;t know that we will see another LDS-themed film from him.  That is a huge loss.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Rees</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/22/states-of-grace/#comment-51945</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ken Rees]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Dec 2006 00:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/states-of-grace/#comment-51945</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I loved the movie. My 16 year old son did not because of the weakness of Elder Farrell. I know these things happen in real life and the realistic portrayl was not offensive to me. I also feel it should be recognized by LDS faithful to acknowledge the shortcomings we all have in life, and the the Saviors atonement is required since we all fall short of the mark. We are no better nor worse than any other group of people. The only thing that seperates us is, knowing where the path lies leading to our Father! A must see!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loved the movie. My 16 year old son did not because of the weakness of Elder Farrell. I know these things happen in real life and the realistic portrayl was not offensive to me. I also feel it should be recognized by LDS faithful to acknowledge the shortcomings we all have in life, and the the Saviors atonement is required since we all fall short of the mark. We are no better nor worse than any other group of people. The only thing that seperates us is, knowing where the path lies leading to our Father! A must see!</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/22/states-of-grace/#comment-51944</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Dec 2006 05:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/states-of-grace/#comment-51944</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m sorry to hear that Dutcher has drifted away from the church. My guess is that it is not solely due to his disappointment with Mormon cinema and its audience--I don&#039;t believe him to be that petty. (though I&#039;m certain that such disappointments may amount to more than the &quot;last straw&quot;) Many in this forum (including myself) have had such doubts about the mormon faith and have found (or are finding, as in my case) a more healthy way of approaching it.

Dutcher&#039;s work is primarily reactionary. It stems more from a defiance of the more superficial elements of mormonism rather than from a well founded personal theology. His work seems to thrive more on how it takes apart the culture rather than on how it expresses deep religious experience--though, no doubt, some of that expression is found in his work. And, no doubt, the culture is due for that kind of &quot;taking apart&quot; now and again.

But, too often he attempts to convey religious experience by forcing the juxtaposition of incompatable elements that ought to find their way into conflict by means of a more inevitable avenue. The conflict becomes more situational than natural because of his tendency to manipulate the context so as to channel the characters in order to insure a particular thematic outcome. This has a tendency to force the irony thereby rendering the characters irrational and therefore unbelievable, i.e., we don&#039;t believe them. And by failing to believe them we fail to derive any meaningful metaphor from their experience.

That said, Dutcher&#039;s work is sprinkled with powerful moments here an there but lacks an over all power that comes of well designed characters which live beyond the premise of the story--as interesting as that premise may be. Such &quot;spikes&quot; of inspiration in Dutcher&#039;s work are a result of his raw ingenuity.

It is my hope that Dutcher will continue to refine his gifts and that he will not stray too far from the religious touch stones which have been the primary source of his inspiration in filmaking. Despite the weakness (as I see them) in his work which I have mentioned above, I prefere his offerings far and away above the silliness of other so called mormon filmakers. Dutcher has attempted to convey something truely meaningful and has (imo) succeeded in some measure--though I believe he can do better if he will remember his initial intent for creating films and found his work more squarely on literature rather than technology.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry to hear that Dutcher has drifted away from the church. My guess is that it is not solely due to his disappointment with Mormon cinema and its audience&#8211;I don&#8217;t believe him to be that petty. (though I&#8217;m certain that such disappointments may amount to more than the &#8220;last straw&#8221;) Many in this forum (including myself) have had such doubts about the mormon faith and have found (or are finding, as in my case) a more healthy way of approaching it.</p>
<p>Dutcher&#8217;s work is primarily reactionary. It stems more from a defiance of the more superficial elements of mormonism rather than from a well founded personal theology. His work seems to thrive more on how it takes apart the culture rather than on how it expresses deep religious experience&#8211;though, no doubt, some of that expression is found in his work. And, no doubt, the culture is due for that kind of &#8220;taking apart&#8221; now and again.</p>
<p>But, too often he attempts to convey religious experience by forcing the juxtaposition of incompatable elements that ought to find their way into conflict by means of a more inevitable avenue. The conflict becomes more situational than natural because of his tendency to manipulate the context so as to channel the characters in order to insure a particular thematic outcome. This has a tendency to force the irony thereby rendering the characters irrational and therefore unbelievable, i.e., we don&#8217;t believe them. And by failing to believe them we fail to derive any meaningful metaphor from their experience.</p>
<p>That said, Dutcher&#8217;s work is sprinkled with powerful moments here an there but lacks an over all power that comes of well designed characters which live beyond the premise of the story&#8211;as interesting as that premise may be. Such &#8220;spikes&#8221; of inspiration in Dutcher&#8217;s work are a result of his raw ingenuity.</p>
<p>It is my hope that Dutcher will continue to refine his gifts and that he will not stray too far from the religious touch stones which have been the primary source of his inspiration in filmaking. Despite the weakness (as I see them) in his work which I have mentioned above, I prefere his offerings far and away above the silliness of other so called mormon filmakers. Dutcher has attempted to convey something truely meaningful and has (imo) succeeded in some measure&#8211;though I believe he can do better if he will remember his initial intent for creating films and found his work more squarely on literature rather than technology.</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/22/states-of-grace/#comment-51943</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Trevor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Dec 2006 03:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/states-of-grace/#comment-51943</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I watched States of Grace for the first time yesterday and thought it was a beautiful story of faith and forgiveness. I thought it was a wonderful testimony of Godâ€™s effectual calling and conversion.

Hollyâ€™s gift was extremely poignant as a well-intentioned attempt to connect with Elder Farrell, but one that revealed her unfamiliarity with LDS beliefs.

I didnâ€™t initially like the ending. As I reflected on the film last night though it became apparent to me that the unsettling conclusion was the perfect way to end such a realistic movie.

It was a refreshing film that honestly portrayed the depth of human depravity, the spiritual consequences of sin and the daily struggle to obey the Lord. But above all, I loved the movie because our Saviour was glorified.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I watched States of Grace for the first time yesterday and thought it was a beautiful story of faith and forgiveness. I thought it was a wonderful testimony of Godâ€™s effectual calling and conversion.</p>
<p>Hollyâ€™s gift was extremely poignant as a well-intentioned attempt to connect with Elder Farrell, but one that revealed her unfamiliarity with LDS beliefs.</p>
<p>I didnâ€™t initially like the ending. As I reflected on the film last night though it became apparent to me that the unsettling conclusion was the perfect way to end such a realistic movie.</p>
<p>It was a refreshing film that honestly portrayed the depth of human depravity, the spiritual consequences of sin and the daily struggle to obey the Lord. But above all, I loved the movie because our Saviour was glorified.</p>
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		<title>By: a random John</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/22/states-of-grace/#comment-51942</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[a random John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Dec 2006 23:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/12/states-of-grace/#comment-51942</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll chime in to agree with #8.  I&#039;ve looked for it twice on  NetFlix and haven&#039;t found it.  I&#039;d like to see it but I&#039;m not interested enough to go out of my way for it.  He needs to talk to NetFlix and get it on the site.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll chime in to agree with #8.  I&#8217;ve looked for it twice on  NetFlix and haven&#8217;t found it.  I&#8217;d like to see it but I&#8217;m not interested enough to go out of my way for it.  He needs to talk to NetFlix and get it on the site.</p>
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