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	<title>Comments on: Baby Adolf in the Celestial Kingdom</title>
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	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/25/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Jimmy S.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/25/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52323</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 20:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52323</guid>
		<description>Seems to me that this boils down to a &quot;nature vs. nurture&quot; sort of thing.

To the extent that Hitler&#039;s spirit was naturally inclined to be a sadistic monster, that would have manifested itself even at a relatively young age.  Baby Hitler, to my way of thinking, wouldn&#039;t be getting a free pass anywhere.

To the extent that Hitler&#039;s evil was in fact a product of his life experiences--poverty, traumatic experiences in WW1, or whatever--then Adult Hitler&#039;s situation at the final judgment may not be appreciably more dire than would Baby Hitler&#039;s.

--Jim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me that this boils down to a &#8220;nature vs. nurture&#8221; sort of thing.</p>
<p>To the extent that Hitler&#8217;s spirit was naturally inclined to be a sadistic monster, that would have manifested itself even at a relatively young age.  Baby Hitler, to my way of thinking, wouldn&#8217;t be getting a free pass anywhere.</p>
<p>To the extent that Hitler&#8217;s evil was in fact a product of his life experiences&#8211;poverty, traumatic experiences in WW1, or whatever&#8211;then Adult Hitler&#8217;s situation at the final judgment may not be appreciably more dire than would Baby Hitler&#8217;s.</p>
<p>&#8211;Jim</p>
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		<title>By: Ronan</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/25/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52322</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jan 2007 06:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52322</guid>
		<description>David,
All of that assumes that little children are &lt;em&gt;meant&lt;/em&gt; to die. I absolutely do not believe that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,<br />
All of that assumes that little children are <em>meant</em> to die. I absolutely do not believe that.</p>
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		<title>By: David Brosnahan</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/25/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52321</link>
		<dc:creator>David Brosnahan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jan 2007 01:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52321</guid>
		<description>God knows our heart.  He has granted us time on the one hand to repent (the probationary state) or to ripen in iniquity.  Thus, he grants all men time to show their true colors.

Infants who die in infancy are deemed to be too pure to need much time in mortality.  Many choose maybe to die so that they could change the heart of one or more people to God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God knows our heart.  He has granted us time on the one hand to repent (the probationary state) or to ripen in iniquity.  Thus, he grants all men time to show their true colors.</p>
<p>Infants who die in infancy are deemed to be too pure to need much time in mortality.  Many choose maybe to die so that they could change the heart of one or more people to God.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Osborn</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/25/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52320</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Osborn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jan 2007 19:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52320</guid>
		<description>bbel #49,

I like your last statement about Heavenly Father winning in the end. It brings to mind Moses 1:39. I envision a Celestial Kingdom with numbers that are as great as the stars in the heaven or the sands on the seashore! All we have to do is believe and we shall not perish (die second death) but shall have eternal life. How many in the end will look and believe? I think it will just about be everyone. Helaman 12:23-26 thinks almost all will have eternal life also, all except the very few who are cast out.

Check out my blog- rockofsalvation.blogspot.com if you want a slightly different take on salvation. I would post more here, but I would be hijacking the thread. You seem interested though!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bbel #49,</p>
<p>I like your last statement about Heavenly Father winning in the end. It brings to mind Moses 1:39. I envision a Celestial Kingdom with numbers that are as great as the stars in the heaven or the sands on the seashore! All we have to do is believe and we shall not perish (die second death) but shall have eternal life. How many in the end will look and believe? I think it will just about be everyone. Helaman 12:23-26 thinks almost all will have eternal life also, all except the very few who are cast out.</p>
<p>Check out my blog- rockofsalvation.blogspot.com if you want a slightly different take on salvation. I would post more here, but I would be hijacking the thread. You seem interested though!</p>
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		<title>By: bbell</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/25/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52319</link>
		<dc:creator>bbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jan 2007 19:37:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52319</guid>
		<description>I agree with number 4 and 5.

Also we should be happy that so many of HF&#039;s children are saved in the CK.  I think a great deal of the discomfort that one hears about this idea is simply jealousy.

&quot;Its not fair that my life is so hard and that infant who died at age 2 months gets to go to the CK&quot;

I believe it was BY who taught that in the end HF wins and more souls than most of us think will be in the CK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with number 4 and 5.</p>
<p>Also we should be happy that so many of HF&#8217;s children are saved in the CK.  I think a great deal of the discomfort that one hears about this idea is simply jealousy.</p>
<p>&#8220;Its not fair that my life is so hard and that infant who died at age 2 months gets to go to the CK&#8221;</p>
<p>I believe it was BY who taught that in the end HF wins and more souls than most of us think will be in the CK.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Osborn</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/25/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52318</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Osborn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jan 2007 19:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52318</guid>
		<description>Salavation, true salvation requires that each individual becomes accountable and then makes the choice on his or her own on whether they will choose &quot;eternal life&quot; or &quot;eternal death&quot;. This life is our opportunity to make that choice. Satan wanted to remove the ability for us to choose and act (agency) by removing the ability once we had fallen to choose eternal life by not providing a perfect savior as eternal law would demand. Satan said that he would be the savior, but we know that imperfect beings can&#039;t possibly save even one soul. Satan knew he could not save even one. God knew this also and that is why he became the father of all lies and also why it says in the scriptures that Satan doesn&#039;t stand by his children at the great and last day (can&#039;t save any who followed his plan).

The &quot;world to come&quot; as mentioned earlier will be the terrestrial kingdom which exists during the millennium. That kingdom/world is specifically designed to allow children to grow and make the choices for their own salvation and exaltation possible. It is also the place where we continue on our path of eternal life by learning how to live Celestial law and becoming perfect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Salavation, true salvation requires that each individual becomes accountable and then makes the choice on his or her own on whether they will choose &#8220;eternal life&#8221; or &#8220;eternal death&#8221;. This life is our opportunity to make that choice. Satan wanted to remove the ability for us to choose and act (agency) by removing the ability once we had fallen to choose eternal life by not providing a perfect savior as eternal law would demand. Satan said that he would be the savior, but we know that imperfect beings can&#8217;t possibly save even one soul. Satan knew he could not save even one. God knew this also and that is why he became the father of all lies and also why it says in the scriptures that Satan doesn&#8217;t stand by his children at the great and last day (can&#8217;t save any who followed his plan).</p>
<p>The &#8220;world to come&#8221; as mentioned earlier will be the terrestrial kingdom which exists during the millennium. That kingdom/world is specifically designed to allow children to grow and make the choices for their own salvation and exaltation possible. It is also the place where we continue on our path of eternal life by learning how to live Celestial law and becoming perfect.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe B.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/25/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52317</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jan 2007 19:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52317</guid>
		<description>This is obviously very complex.  It seems if you walk too far in either direction, various other doctrines become stressed.

We apparently don&#039;t understand everything that pertains to this matter.  To be exalted, you must be sealed in the temple.  Those that don&#039;t have that opportunity on this earth can have it done vicariously.  Same with their baptisms.  However, we don&#039;t do baptisms in the temple for children who die before 8.  I don&#039;t know what this implies, but it seems it should shed some light on our issue.

Moroni (or Mormon) seemed pretty clear on the issue.  Children don&#039;t need that ordinance.  The atonement covers it.  It seems we run into problems when we try to justify coverage of the atonement for certain groups (which we probably shouldn&#039;t be doing anyway).  Are we ultimately getting hung up on the justice of some of those souls deserving all the blessings of the atonement, while the rest of us are in danger every day of screwing up our own rights to those same blessings?

If the Lord says &quot;They get the blessings,&quot; then we say &quot;Wait, why?  Were they all great souls in the pre-existence?  If not, it&#039;s not fair.&quot;  We don&#039;t really know what goes into it, and when we try to guess either way, we seem to get stuck.  Just my observation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is obviously very complex.  It seems if you walk too far in either direction, various other doctrines become stressed.</p>
<p>We apparently don&#8217;t understand everything that pertains to this matter.  To be exalted, you must be sealed in the temple.  Those that don&#8217;t have that opportunity on this earth can have it done vicariously.  Same with their baptisms.  However, we don&#8217;t do baptisms in the temple for children who die before 8.  I don&#8217;t know what this implies, but it seems it should shed some light on our issue.</p>
<p>Moroni (or Mormon) seemed pretty clear on the issue.  Children don&#8217;t need that ordinance.  The atonement covers it.  It seems we run into problems when we try to justify coverage of the atonement for certain groups (which we probably shouldn&#8217;t be doing anyway).  Are we ultimately getting hung up on the justice of some of those souls deserving all the blessings of the atonement, while the rest of us are in danger every day of screwing up our own rights to those same blessings?</p>
<p>If the Lord says &#8220;They get the blessings,&#8221; then we say &#8220;Wait, why?  Were they all great souls in the pre-existence?  If not, it&#8217;s not fair.&#8221;  We don&#8217;t really know what goes into it, and when we try to guess either way, we seem to get stuck.  Just my observation.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark B.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/25/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52316</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52316</guid>
		<description>But he was a sweet kid, kind to his mother, and it was rumored that he attended Primary as a child.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But he was a sweet kid, kind to his mother, and it was rumored that he attended Primary as a child.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronan</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/25/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52315</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52315</guid>
		<description>BTW, everyone should follow Stapley&#039;s link in #3.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, everyone should follow Stapley&#8217;s link in #3.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronan</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/25/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52314</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/baby-adolf-in-the-celestial-kingdom/#comment-52314</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;entrance into the Celestial Kingdom, and perhaps exaltation, can only be lost here, not gained&lt;/em&gt;

A terrifying summary of where all of this can take us theologically if we&#039;re not careful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>entrance into the Celestial Kingdom, and perhaps exaltation, can only be lost here, not gained</em></p>
<p>A terrifying summary of where all of this can take us theologically if we&#8217;re not careful.</p>
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