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	<title>Comments on: Let the Fundamentalist Speak?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/30/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/30/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Antonio Teixeira</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/30/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101208</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Antonio Teixeira]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Feb 2007 13:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101208</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What makes a Fundie? What can be considered a Fundamentalist view? Taking some &quot;elements of the Mormon past as eternal truths&quot;?

According to such definition, believing that Christ was married and fathered children would be a Fundamentalist doctrine, since the current LDS position is that the Church has not received revelation on this, regardless of all statements by early leaders.

Or this specific topic doesn&#039;t fit into the category &quot;Fundie&quot; because many (if not most) members believe in that?

Is it then a matter of popularity? Plural marriage has never been a popular doctrine, and the same can be said about Adam God doctrine, the United Order, old-style garments, etc..]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What makes a Fundie? What can be considered a Fundamentalist view? Taking some &#8220;elements of the Mormon past as eternal truths&#8221;?</p>
<p>According to such definition, believing that Christ was married and fathered children would be a Fundamentalist doctrine, since the current LDS position is that the Church has not received revelation on this, regardless of all statements by early leaders.</p>
<p>Or this specific topic doesn&#8217;t fit into the category &#8220;Fundie&#8221; because many (if not most) members believe in that?</p>
<p>Is it then a matter of popularity? Plural marriage has never been a popular doctrine, and the same can be said about Adam God doctrine, the United Order, old-style garments, etc..</p>
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		<title>By: J. Stapley</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/30/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101229</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J. Stapley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 20:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101229</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Antonio, you just betrayed your profound misunderstanding of Mormon history.  Regardless of what they claim they are not in accord with the Church and its authorities.  This is not a forum for your fundie apologetics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Antonio, you just betrayed your profound misunderstanding of Mormon history.  Regardless of what they claim they are not in accord with the Church and its authorities.  This is not a forum for your fundie apologetics.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Antonio Teixeira</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/30/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101230</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Antonio Teixeira]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 20:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#27 J. Stapley,

were Joseph Smith and the early polygamists in accord with the Church when the doctrine was revealed (probably as early as 1831)? Were the Church-approved plural sealings after the Manifesto in accord with the Church? Would you like to clarify how polygamy today is different from these two situations?

There are different kinds of Fundamentalists out there but most do support the LDS as Christ&#039;s Church while they claim priesthood authority to keep plural marriage alive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#27 J. Stapley,</p>
<p>were Joseph Smith and the early polygamists in accord with the Church when the doctrine was revealed (probably as early as 1831)? Were the Church-approved plural sealings after the Manifesto in accord with the Church? Would you like to clarify how polygamy today is different from these two situations?</p>
<p>There are different kinds of Fundamentalists out there but most do support the LDS as Christ&#8217;s Church while they claim priesthood authority to keep plural marriage alive.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt W.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/30/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101228</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt W.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 17:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101228</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[J. I don&#039;t disagree, I am not questioning that a reasonable amount of Americans feel they have the right to suppress opposing views which they find incorrect or stupid. Just look at the whole ID fandango for a prime example of that.

My point was more that while I answered yes to all three questions about, where I felt I had no control of the situation, I would probably answer no to all the questions I layed out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J. I don&#8217;t disagree, I am not questioning that a reasonable amount of Americans feel they have the right to suppress opposing views which they find incorrect or stupid. Just look at the whole ID fandango for a prime example of that.</p>
<p>My point was more that while I answered yes to all three questions about, where I felt I had no control of the situation, I would probably answer no to all the questions I layed out.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Nelson-Seawright</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/30/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101227</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J. Nelson-Seawright]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 17:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101227</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Again, Matt W., I should note that -- while there are always questions that could be asked that would lead any given individual to vote to suppress the speech -- the question as actually asked above, with appropriate choice of target group, leads a reasonable-to-large proportion of representative samples of Americans to oppose the right to give the speech.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, Matt W., I should note that &#8212; while there are always questions that could be asked that would lead any given individual to vote to suppress the speech &#8212; the question as actually asked above, with appropriate choice of target group, leads a reasonable-to-large proportion of representative samples of Americans to oppose the right to give the speech.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Matt W.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/30/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101226</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt W.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 17:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The issue here is one of phrasing, also.

Here is the way it is phrased:

If a fundamentalist Mormon wanted to give a speech in your city advocating polygamy, should he or she be allowed to speak, or not?

Let&#039;s change it about, how about:

If a fundamentalist Mormon wanted to give a speech in your city advocating polygamy, would you listen?

Or how about:

If a fundamentalist Mormon wanted to give a speech in your house advocating polygamy, should he or she be allowed to speak, or not?

Or

If a fundamentalist Mormon wanted to give a speech in your city advocating polygamy, and came to you for permission and help, Would you Support them?

Or even

If it was your job to set up speakers for events in your city, and a fundamentalist Mormon wanted to give a speech in your city advocating polygamy, would you set them up?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue here is one of phrasing, also.</p>
<p>Here is the way it is phrased:</p>
<p>If a fundamentalist Mormon wanted to give a speech in your city advocating polygamy, should he or she be allowed to speak, or not?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s change it about, how about:</p>
<p>If a fundamentalist Mormon wanted to give a speech in your city advocating polygamy, would you listen?</p>
<p>Or how about:</p>
<p>If a fundamentalist Mormon wanted to give a speech in your house advocating polygamy, should he or she be allowed to speak, or not?</p>
<p>Or</p>
<p>If a fundamentalist Mormon wanted to give a speech in your city advocating polygamy, and came to you for permission and help, Would you Support them?</p>
<p>Or even</p>
<p>If it was your job to set up speakers for events in your city, and a fundamentalist Mormon wanted to give a speech in your city advocating polygamy, would you set them up?</p>
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		<title>By: HP/JDC</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/30/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101225</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HP/JDC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 16:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101225</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder what the results would have been if the poll question had substituted homosexual for fundamentalist and homosexuality for polygamy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what the results would have been if the poll question had substituted homosexual for fundamentalist and homosexuality for polygamy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: J. Stapley</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/30/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101224</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J. Stapley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 16:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101224</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Antonio, it would also include Abraham.  However, none of these folks were fundies.  Fundies simply aren&#039;t in accord with the Church.  Support them all you want, but this won&#039;t change.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Antonio, it would also include Abraham.  However, none of these folks were fundies.  Fundies simply aren&#8217;t in accord with the Church.  Support them all you want, but this won&#8217;t change.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Antonio Teixeira</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/30/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101223</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Antonio Teixeira]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 15:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#20 &quot;I wouldnâ€™t allow a fundamentalist to speak at stake conference&quot;.

Does Fundamentalist here mean polygamist? If so, would that include Joseph Smith and his friends?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#20 &#8220;I wouldnâ€™t allow a fundamentalist to speak at stake conference&#8221;.</p>
<p>Does Fundamentalist here mean polygamist? If so, would that include Joseph Smith and his friends?</p>
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		<title>By: RoastedTomatoes</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/30/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101222</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RoastedTomatoes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 14:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/01/let-the-fundamentalist-speak/#comment-101222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[KyleM, I agree that Mormon bloggers are very tolerant.  I&#039;d speculate that we&#039;re more tolerant than Mormons as a whole, but I don&#039;t have the data to demonstrate it.

Kevinf, I agree that it makes a lot of sense to construct an argument for tolerance from Mormon history.  And I also agree that many Americans would probably express serious intolerance toward Mormons -- as I mentioned above, at the end of the post, many Americans are willing to express support for the curtailment of the civil rights of basically any group they seriously dislike.

Norbert, I think the logic you express is probably reasonably typical of the Mormon bloggers who&#039;ve answered this question.  On the other hand, eliciting intolerant responses from samples of Americans doesn&#039;t actually require naming a group those Americans &lt;em&gt;fear&lt;/em&gt;; strong dislike is enough.  As late as 1998, for example, lefty Americans were about 80% willing to suppress the civil rights of members of the John Birch Society -- even though that society barely had members, and certainly lacked the power to be any kind of threat, by that point.

On the other hand, I&#039;m not sure about the extent to which there isn&#039;t anti-polygamist Mormon rhetoric among Mormons, especially in Utah.  I know that I heard a lot while I was in high school there -- to the point that I acquired prejudices that I subsequently had to unlearn.  While there&#039;s at least the possibility that my experience was atypical, it seems likely to me that the Utah culture region tends to inculcate strong anti-polygamist sentiments.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KyleM, I agree that Mormon bloggers are very tolerant.  I&#8217;d speculate that we&#8217;re more tolerant than Mormons as a whole, but I don&#8217;t have the data to demonstrate it.</p>
<p>Kevinf, I agree that it makes a lot of sense to construct an argument for tolerance from Mormon history.  And I also agree that many Americans would probably express serious intolerance toward Mormons &#8212; as I mentioned above, at the end of the post, many Americans are willing to express support for the curtailment of the civil rights of basically any group they seriously dislike.</p>
<p>Norbert, I think the logic you express is probably reasonably typical of the Mormon bloggers who&#8217;ve answered this question.  On the other hand, eliciting intolerant responses from samples of Americans doesn&#8217;t actually require naming a group those Americans <em>fear</em>; strong dislike is enough.  As late as 1998, for example, lefty Americans were about 80% willing to suppress the civil rights of members of the John Birch Society &#8212; even though that society barely had members, and certainly lacked the power to be any kind of threat, by that point.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I&#8217;m not sure about the extent to which there isn&#8217;t anti-polygamist Mormon rhetoric among Mormons, especially in Utah.  I know that I heard a lot while I was in high school there &#8212; to the point that I acquired prejudices that I subsequently had to unlearn.  While there&#8217;s at least the possibility that my experience was atypical, it seems likely to me that the Utah culture region tends to inculcate strong anti-polygamist sentiments.</p>
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