Comments on: Joseph Smith as shaman? http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/05/joseph-smith-as-shaman/ A Mormon Blog Mon, 13 Feb 2012 20:38:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: R. Bishop http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/05/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52929 Sat, 05 May 2007 07:56:13 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52929 “shaman” is an attempt to exlude us through simple name calling. Where “cult” no longer has as popular support, another ad hominem is required.

]]> By: J. Stapley http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/05/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52928 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 16:35:30 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52928 OK, I was a bit confused. I thought he was saying that Joseph used the Bidamon stone. I’m still confused about the whole CoC archive visit. Is he claiming that either of two stones you linked to are the ones Joseph used?

Mark A-M sifts through all the accounts and makes for a very compelling case that most historians have been mistaken about the provenance of the various stones. The stone from the purported well digging in the chase yard was actually the white stone, gazelem.

]]> By: Matt B http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/05/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52927 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 06:16:25 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52927 Was not the well stone the one used in translation, or am I misunderstanding your point? Also not sure what you mean by decoration.

Roberts:

The Seer Stone referred to here was a chocolate-colored, somewhat egg-shaped stone which the Prophet found while digging a well in company with his brother Hyrum, for a Mr. Clark Chase, near Palmyra, N.Y. It possessed the qualities of Urim and Thummim, since by means of it–as described above–as well as by means of the Interpreters found with the Nephite record, Joseph was able to translate the characters engraven on the plates. (Comprehensive History of the Church, Vol. 1, p. 129)

]]> By: J. Stapley http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/05/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52926 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 00:56:10 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52926 Hm. I believe that one, the one from the bottom of the well, didn’t have decoration. Mark A-M makes a compelling case that it was this white stone that was consecrated in Manti by Willford Woodruff (and also consequently in the FP vault).

]]> By: Matt B http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/05/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52925 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 00:25:08 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52925 From what I understand, the location of the chocolate egg shaped stone is currently in dispute. I know Mark A-M believes that it’s in the FP vault; however Ron obviously disagrees. In any case, it’s neither of the Whitmer stones – it’s the one Joseph found in the well.

]]> By: J. Stapley http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/05/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52924 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 00:08:51 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52924 Also I think I misread you. Here is an image of the David Whitmer stone. I think the Jacob Whitmer stone is what you linked to in your first link. So is he saying that Jacob’s or David’s stone is the one that Joseph used? I think the Bidamon stone is one that Joseph picked up from the banks of the Mississippi, if I remember correctly.

]]> By: J. Stapley http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/05/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52923 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 23:58:20 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52923 Hm. The Bidamon stone would seem to defy all the descriptions of the brown egg/baby’s foot shaped stone. Moreover, there is apparently matching stone in the FP vault (if I remember correctly). I am kind of intrigued by the Iroquois connection though. In the 18th century, when the Jesuits came, there was a fair amount of Baptism for healing going on among them.

]]> By: Matt B http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/05/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52922 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 23:40:28 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52922 More details – The stone Ron showed Mike was not in fact the Whitmer stone (which is in fact a gorget; the Bidamon stone may also be one); Mike saw Jacob’s stone, and it was in a different box from the stone he discusses above. According to Mike Ron believes it is in fact the famous egg shaped chocolate stone that BH Roberts refers to and that Joseph translated with. There are no photographs circulating. I know Mark disagrees with this identification, but there you go.

Mike also draws parallels between Joseph’s use of a seerstone and what he calls Iroquois ‘divination stones,’ many of which are identified now as gorgets. He believes Joseph used his in a similar way, and that there is some – though not direct – connection.

Anyway, I am willing to pass along Mike’s email if any questions remain.

]]> By: MCQ http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/05/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52865 Tue, 06 Mar 2007 18:26:44 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52865 Larry: That’s a whoooooole different post, which would be best addressed, as I understand it, by FMHLisa.

]]> By: Larry Ogan http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/05/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52866 Tue, 06 Mar 2007 16:55:54 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/joseph-smith-as-shaman/#comment-52866 This blog reminds me of an age old question that I often ponder. What is a Mojo and how do I get it working?

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