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	<title>Comments on: Covering Romney in the international media</title>
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	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Cpt Dinosaur</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/16/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53080</link>
		<dc:creator>Cpt Dinosaur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53080</guid>
		<description>Ask anyone who has missioned near Madison, WI.
The far lefties are generally nice and open and love to talk to Mormons.

Why?

Because they&#039;re stoned.

Or whatever phrase the kids are using these days</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ask anyone who has missioned near Madison, WI.<br />
The far lefties are generally nice and open and love to talk to Mormons.</p>
<p>Why?</p>
<p>Because they&#8217;re stoned.</p>
<p>Or whatever phrase the kids are using these days</p>
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		<title>By: MCQ</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/16/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53079</link>
		<dc:creator>MCQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 06:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53079</guid>
		<description>I like where your head&#039;s at Bot, but you&#039;re preaching to the choir.  Go try that line of reasoning on a evangelical blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like where your head&#8217;s at Bot, but you&#8217;re preaching to the choir.  Go try that line of reasoning on a evangelical blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Bot</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/16/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53078</link>
		<dc:creator>Bot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 01:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53078</guid>
		<description>Could Mitt Romney be more &quot;Christian&quot; than Evangelicals?   Protestants and Catholics subscribe to the Nicene creed, which was initiated by the Emperor Constantine in the Fourth Century to rid Scriptures of the Apocrypha, which made reference to the oral traditions of Jewish and early Christian temple worship.

First Century Christian churches, in fact, continued the Jewish temple worship traditions:
1) Baptism of youth (not infants) by immersion by the father of the family
2) Lay clergy
3) Anointing with holy oil after baptism
4) Then clothing in white clothing

Just check with the Israeli Museum to verify. And read Exodus Ch 29 for Aaron and his sonsâ€™ ordinances.  Jewish Temple practices were continued by Christians prior to Constantine&#039;s corruption (see St. Cyril of Jerusalem (315-386) Lecture XXI). Early Christians were persecuted for keeping their practices sacred, and not allowing non-Christians to witness them

A literal reading of the New Testament points to God and Jesus Christ being separate beings, united in purpose.  To whom was Jesus praying in the Gethsemane, and to whom was he speaking on the Mount of Transfiguration?

The Nicene Creedâ€™s definition of the Trinity was influenced by scribes translating the Greek manuscripts into Latin.  The scribes embellished on a passage explaining the Trinity, which is the Catholic and Protestant belief that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The oldest versions of the epistle of 1 John, read: &quot;There are three that bear witness: the Spirit, the water and the blood and these three are one.&quot;
Scribes later added &quot;the Father, the Word and the Spirit,&quot; and it remained in the epistle when it was translated into English for the King James Version, according to Dr. Bart Ehrman, Chairman of the Religion Department at UNC- Chapel Hill.

Members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) have concern for their ancestorsâ€™ spiritual welfare, so they practice proxy baptism.  (1 Corinthians 15:29 &amp; Malachi 4:5-6).

Only members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) continue these practices of First Century Christians.  But Mormons don&#039;t term Catholics and Protestants â€œnon-Christianâ€.  The dictionary definition of a Christian is â€œof, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to a religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christâ€:.  All of the above denominations are followers of Christ, and consider him the Messiah foretold in the Old Testament.

Itâ€™s important to understand the difference between Reformation and Restoration when we consider who might be the more authentic Christian.  If Mitt Romney is a member of a denomination which embraces early Christian theology, he is likely more â€œChristianâ€ than his detractors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could Mitt Romney be more &#8220;Christian&#8221; than Evangelicals?   Protestants and Catholics subscribe to the Nicene creed, which was initiated by the Emperor Constantine in the Fourth Century to rid Scriptures of the Apocrypha, which made reference to the oral traditions of Jewish and early Christian temple worship.</p>
<p>First Century Christian churches, in fact, continued the Jewish temple worship traditions:<br />
1) Baptism of youth (not infants) by immersion by the father of the family<br />
2) Lay clergy<br />
3) Anointing with holy oil after baptism<br />
4) Then clothing in white clothing</p>
<p>Just check with the Israeli Museum to verify. And read Exodus Ch 29 for Aaron and his sonsâ€™ ordinances.  Jewish Temple practices were continued by Christians prior to Constantine&#8217;s corruption (see St. Cyril of Jerusalem (315-386) Lecture XXI). Early Christians were persecuted for keeping their practices sacred, and not allowing non-Christians to witness them</p>
<p>A literal reading of the New Testament points to God and Jesus Christ being separate beings, united in purpose.  To whom was Jesus praying in the Gethsemane, and to whom was he speaking on the Mount of Transfiguration?</p>
<p>The Nicene Creedâ€™s definition of the Trinity was influenced by scribes translating the Greek manuscripts into Latin.  The scribes embellished on a passage explaining the Trinity, which is the Catholic and Protestant belief that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The oldest versions of the epistle of 1 John, read: &#8220;There are three that bear witness: the Spirit, the water and the blood and these three are one.&#8221;<br />
Scribes later added &#8220;the Father, the Word and the Spirit,&#8221; and it remained in the epistle when it was translated into English for the King James Version, according to Dr. Bart Ehrman, Chairman of the Religion Department at UNC- Chapel Hill.</p>
<p>Members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) have concern for their ancestorsâ€™ spiritual welfare, so they practice proxy baptism.  (1 Corinthians 15:29 &amp; Malachi 4:5-6).</p>
<p>Only members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) continue these practices of First Century Christians.  But Mormons don&#8217;t term Catholics and Protestants â€œnon-Christianâ€.  The dictionary definition of a Christian is â€œof, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to a religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christâ€:.  All of the above denominations are followers of Christ, and consider him the Messiah foretold in the Old Testament.</p>
<p>Itâ€™s important to understand the difference between Reformation and Restoration when we consider who might be the more authentic Christian.  If Mitt Romney is a member of a denomination which embraces early Christian theology, he is likely more â€œChristianâ€ than his detractors.</p>
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		<title>By: manaen</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/16/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53077</link>
		<dc:creator>manaen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Mar 2007 19:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53077</guid>
		<description>54. I like what YL says, reminds me of that old Carl Sandburg in which  travelers ask what a certain town is like -- the local guy lways asked what their old place was like and always answered that it also was like that in the new place. I&#039;ve found that usually I set the tone of people&#039;s reaction to the restored gospel: when I acted like it was a weird thing I believe, they did as well; now I don&#039;t and they don&#039;t -- at least while I&#039;m there!

I strongly prefer &quot;The Church of Christ&quot; or &quot;LDS&quot; to Mormon.  It may seem pretentious to non-members, but so be it. This is the reason the Church exists.  As the last phrase of the last sentence of the BoM&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/introduction&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Introduction&lt;/a&gt; says, &lt;em&gt;[...]The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Lordâ€™s kingdom once again established on the earth, preparatory to the second coming of the Messiah.&lt;/em&gt;  It seems dishonest to me to know that and then try to hide it -- always keeping in mind GBH&#039;s admonition that when we disagree, not to be disagreeable.

I&#039;ve been surprised at the growth of recognition and acceptance of &quot;LDS&quot; vs. &quot;Mormon.&quot;  Here in SoCal, I usually hear it from non-members when they are serious in their comments with me, but they still frequently use &quot;Mormon&quot; in flippant or casual conversation.  Because of this difference in usage, I find that I&#039;m sometimes able to set a respectful tone simply by using &quot;LDS&quot; early in a conversation.  I say we continue to lead the world to our preferred monicker -- they seem to see it as our group&#039;s right to choose our name much as Negroes--&gt;Blacks--&gt;African-Americans have done.

I usually go a step further when I comment in non-member blogs.  Taking my lead from the reformatted logo fo the Church, I use CJC or CJClds in place of LDS, figuring if we want to emphasize Christ in our name, I&#039;ll do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>54. I like what YL says, reminds me of that old Carl Sandburg in which  travelers ask what a certain town is like &#8212; the local guy lways asked what their old place was like and always answered that it also was like that in the new place. I&#8217;ve found that usually I set the tone of people&#8217;s reaction to the restored gospel: when I acted like it was a weird thing I believe, they did as well; now I don&#8217;t and they don&#8217;t &#8212; at least while I&#8217;m there!</p>
<p>I strongly prefer &#8220;The Church of Christ&#8221; or &#8220;LDS&#8221; to Mormon.  It may seem pretentious to non-members, but so be it. This is the reason the Church exists.  As the last phrase of the last sentence of the BoM&#8217;s <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/introduction" rel="nofollow">Introduction</a> says, <em>[...]The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Lordâ€™s kingdom once again established on the earth, preparatory to the second coming of the Messiah.</em>  It seems dishonest to me to know that and then try to hide it &#8212; always keeping in mind GBH&#8217;s admonition that when we disagree, not to be disagreeable.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been surprised at the growth of recognition and acceptance of &#8220;LDS&#8221; vs. &#8220;Mormon.&#8221;  Here in SoCal, I usually hear it from non-members when they are serious in their comments with me, but they still frequently use &#8220;Mormon&#8221; in flippant or casual conversation.  Because of this difference in usage, I find that I&#8217;m sometimes able to set a respectful tone simply by using &#8220;LDS&#8221; early in a conversation.  I say we continue to lead the world to our preferred monicker &#8212; they seem to see it as our group&#8217;s right to choose our name much as Negroes&#8211;&gt;Blacks&#8211;&gt;African-Americans have done.</p>
<p>I usually go a step further when I comment in non-member blogs.  Taking my lead from the reformatted logo fo the Church, I use CJC or CJClds in place of LDS, figuring if we want to emphasize Christ in our name, I&#8217;ll do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Norbert</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/16/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53076</link>
		<dc:creator>Norbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Mar 2007 11:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53076</guid>
		<description>Liberal politicians don&#039;t hate Mormons because they don&#039;t raise very much money for the Republicans compared to other religious groups.

The Religious Right doesn&#039;t have a candidate yet, so they&#039;re laying low. If Gingrich jumps in, watch the attack begin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liberal politicians don&#8217;t hate Mormons because they don&#8217;t raise very much money for the Republicans compared to other religious groups.</p>
<p>The Religious Right doesn&#8217;t have a candidate yet, so they&#8217;re laying low. If Gingrich jumps in, watch the attack begin.</p>
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		<title>By: Yeechang Lee</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/16/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53075</link>
		<dc:creator>Yeechang Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Mar 2007 09:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53075</guid>
		<description>As one who grew up and went to college in New York City and now live in temporary exile in San Francisco, it&#039;s been my experience that those who are convinced others will see their being Latter-day Saints as &quot;weird&quot; will find their presuppositions confirmed. Those who assume most others are open-minded people of goodwill will also find this to be so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As one who grew up and went to college in New York City and now live in temporary exile in San Francisco, it&#8217;s been my experience that those who are convinced others will see their being Latter-day Saints as &#8220;weird&#8221; will find their presuppositions confirmed. Those who assume most others are open-minded people of goodwill will also find this to be so.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth R.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/16/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53022</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Mar 2007 04:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53022</guid>
		<description>Gander, you&#039;re confusing the parties here.

Yes, the average evangelical in the pews is not looking at Mormons and seeing an invasive threat to his or her faith. They just think it&#039;s wierd.

But &quot;wierd&quot; isn&#039;t enough to make people refuse to hire you because you are Mormon, or keep their kids away from yours.

The real ugliness is coming from the PASTORS. It is the pastors who are keeping the real hatred alive primarily (although once you get the hate machine rolling, others will often keep it rolling for you). It is the ministers who instruct their flock to avoid Mormons at all costs, who warn them about how deceptive we are, who insist that the wholesome image is all some sinister plot to suck in the unsuspecting.

Yes, we are wierd to them. But the hatred doesn&#039;t come from being regarded as wierd. The hatred comes when a religious leader places God&#039;s endorsement on ostracizing Mormons.

And the pastors are motivated by fear of Mormon poaching among their flock. The pastors also tend to be educated enough to clue-in their largely ignorant parishoners about all the disturbing theological heresies found in Mormonism. Heresies most evangelicals wouldn&#039;t even know about if the reverend hadn&#039;t told them about it.

Without the pastors, evangelicals would probably view us no differently than people who believe in herbal medicine. Wierd, but... whatever floats your boat man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gander, you&#8217;re confusing the parties here.</p>
<p>Yes, the average evangelical in the pews is not looking at Mormons and seeing an invasive threat to his or her faith. They just think it&#8217;s wierd.</p>
<p>But &#8220;wierd&#8221; isn&#8217;t enough to make people refuse to hire you because you are Mormon, or keep their kids away from yours.</p>
<p>The real ugliness is coming from the PASTORS. It is the pastors who are keeping the real hatred alive primarily (although once you get the hate machine rolling, others will often keep it rolling for you). It is the ministers who instruct their flock to avoid Mormons at all costs, who warn them about how deceptive we are, who insist that the wholesome image is all some sinister plot to suck in the unsuspecting.</p>
<p>Yes, we are wierd to them. But the hatred doesn&#8217;t come from being regarded as wierd. The hatred comes when a religious leader places God&#8217;s endorsement on ostracizing Mormons.</p>
<p>And the pastors are motivated by fear of Mormon poaching among their flock. The pastors also tend to be educated enough to clue-in their largely ignorant parishoners about all the disturbing theological heresies found in Mormonism. Heresies most evangelicals wouldn&#8217;t even know about if the reverend hadn&#8217;t told them about it.</p>
<p>Without the pastors, evangelicals would probably view us no differently than people who believe in herbal medicine. Wierd, but&#8230; whatever floats your boat man.</p>
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		<title>By: Gander</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/16/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53023</link>
		<dc:creator>Gander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Mar 2007 01:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53023</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think Evangelicals have negative feelings towards Mormons because we are stealing their members.  They just think we&#039;re weird and cultish.  It will be interesting to see how/if that perception changes when the facts about our religion become more apparent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think Evangelicals have negative feelings towards Mormons because we are stealing their members.  They just think we&#8217;re weird and cultish.  It will be interesting to see how/if that perception changes when the facts about our religion become more apparent.</p>
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		<title>By: Hellmut</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/16/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53024</link>
		<dc:creator>Hellmut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Mar 2007 23:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53024</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know, Seth.  I am sure that you are right about a lot of Evangelicals but in 2000, there were three to four million Evangelicals that did not vote for George W. Bush because of DUIs when he was in college.

Some of them will rather stay home from the general election before voting for Mitt Romney.

There&#039;s not only the Mormon thing but also the waffling on the social issues.  It&#039;s already all over youtube.  Conditions are perfect to submerge anti-Mormon feelings in the subtext.

&lt;strong&gt;Marginal depression of the base is enough.&lt;/strong&gt;  If five or six million Evangelicals stay home or switch sides, it&#039;s over for the Republicans.

I can imagine circumstances where Pat Robertson will close shoulders with Romney (to stop McCain or most of the Dems) and James Dobson is indicating already that he is not necessarily opposed to Romney&#039;s candidacy.

Yet I cannot get myself to drop the double negative because support by Evangelical leaders is such an unlikely scenario.

Besides, Dobson&#039;s followers criticized him even for cooperating with Mormons on the gay marriage referenda.  Not every Evangelical will follow if their leaders were to support Romney.

Anyone who wants to criticize Romney for being Mormon without appearing bigotted can just show folks another youtube video.  McCain and Giuliani will make sure that everyone knows about Romney&#039;s record.  It&#039;s easy to drop a slur here and there to activate deeply held prejudice.

Romney is in a difficult position.  He made it worse when he started to run against himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know, Seth.  I am sure that you are right about a lot of Evangelicals but in 2000, there were three to four million Evangelicals that did not vote for George W. Bush because of DUIs when he was in college.</p>
<p>Some of them will rather stay home from the general election before voting for Mitt Romney.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s not only the Mormon thing but also the waffling on the social issues.  It&#8217;s already all over youtube.  Conditions are perfect to submerge anti-Mormon feelings in the subtext.</p>
<p><strong>Marginal depression of the base is enough.</strong>  If five or six million Evangelicals stay home or switch sides, it&#8217;s over for the Republicans.</p>
<p>I can imagine circumstances where Pat Robertson will close shoulders with Romney (to stop McCain or most of the Dems) and James Dobson is indicating already that he is not necessarily opposed to Romney&#8217;s candidacy.</p>
<p>Yet I cannot get myself to drop the double negative because support by Evangelical leaders is such an unlikely scenario.</p>
<p>Besides, Dobson&#8217;s followers criticized him even for cooperating with Mormons on the gay marriage referenda.  Not every Evangelical will follow if their leaders were to support Romney.</p>
<p>Anyone who wants to criticize Romney for being Mormon without appearing bigotted can just show folks another youtube video.  McCain and Giuliani will make sure that everyone knows about Romney&#8217;s record.  It&#8217;s easy to drop a slur here and there to activate deeply held prejudice.</p>
<p>Romney is in a difficult position.  He made it worse when he started to run against himself.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeInWeHo</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/16/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53025</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeInWeHo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Mar 2007 23:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/03/covering-romney-in-the-international-media/#comment-53025</guid>
		<description>I think Seth is pretty much on-target, but I&#039;m not sure the Evangelicals feel as threatened by the Mormons as they used to.  My guess is that in the U.S. more people go from LDS to Evangelical than the reverse these days, but who knows.

I&#039;d predict that attacks on Romney will come mainly from the Christian Right during the primaries, but if he gets nominated they will fall in line and support him.  Then the attacks will come from the left after that.

All the great proselytizing faiths are feared and loathed by other religions.  How could it not be so?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Seth is pretty much on-target, but I&#8217;m not sure the Evangelicals feel as threatened by the Mormons as they used to.  My guess is that in the U.S. more people go from LDS to Evangelical than the reverse these days, but who knows.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d predict that attacks on Romney will come mainly from the Christian Right during the primaries, but if he gets nominated they will fall in line and support him.  Then the attacks will come from the left after that.</p>
<p>All the great proselytizing faiths are feared and loathed by other religions.  How could it not be so?</p>
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