By Common Consent, a Mormon Blog

17 Responses to “Dialogue, while packing lunches”

1. Ronan Says:
   April 4, 2007 at 6:17 am

   Your kids do indeed rock. I still haven’t gotten over the Swallows and Amazons world I found myself in at your place last summer!
2. hpm Says:
   April 4, 2007 at 7:45 am

   Boy Scout cookies–I love it. Your kids most assuredly do rock, as do the Primary girls in my ward. Last Friday at the Pinewood Derby, my husband (Mr. Webelo) set out some extra boxed cars to cannibalize for spare parts. The sisters of the Derby participants saw an opportunity and started building and decorating cars of their own. Noting this enthusiasm, the scouting people are now talking to the Activity Days people about a race event for the girls. As Mr. Webelo puts it, “It’s a Pinewood Derby, not a priesthood derby.” Peter is heartily invited to the event; we’ll see what we can do about getting some Boy Scout cookies for refreshments!
3. kris Says:
   April 4, 2007 at 7:56 am

   I love hearing stories like this! Recently at our house, two of my boys noted that a girl in one of their classes has her mother’s last name, not her father’s.

   Boy #1: Why does Susie’s dad have a different last name?
   Boy #2: Oh, I guess he decided to keep his name when he got married.
4. Matt W. Says:
   April 4, 2007 at 9:16 am

   So, um… I hope you explained to your son that it is in fact not sexist that there are no boy scout cookies…
5. Rebecca Says:
   April 4, 2007 at 9:56 am

   Kristine – your kids absolutely rock. My kids loved hanging out with them last summer.
6. Kristine Says:
   April 4, 2007 at 11:44 am

   Unfortunately, Matt, it was smack in the middle of morning craziness, and I didn’t really get a chance to ask him what he meant–it’s true that not having Boy Scout cookies is not sexist in the sense of actually doing harm to either sex, but I think one could make the argument that the fact that the Boy Scouts make their money in a variety of different ways while the Girl Scouts rely on a stereotypically feminine activity partakes of notions about gender that have historically resulted in discrimination. I’d be surprised if that’s what my 10-year-old had in mind The only definition I’ve ever offered him (when he asked a year ago or so) was “sexism is thinking that boys are better than girls or that girls are better than boys.”

   What do you think I should have said?
7. Matt W. Says:
   April 4, 2007 at 12:26 pm

   I have no idea.

   But Boy Scouts outside the LDS church rely on selling popcorn related treats, the united way, and a program called “Friends of Scouting.” Girl Scouts, have similar programs except they sell cookies instead of popcorn. I’d say it’s smarter, not sexist.

   My understanding is that the cookies sell so well, no other fund raising is needed, where as the boy scouts don’t do as well….

   Maybe their should be boy scout cookies…

   On the other hand, could you imagine the uproar that would cause?
8. Sam B Says:
   April 4, 2007 at 12:41 pm

   Kristine,
   Except that, if you read the recent NY Times article on Girl Scout Cookies, whatever its provinence, cookie-selling has become a great way to train girls in the ways of business. It detailed a number of mini-CEO seminars set up for girls (especially in light of flagging sales by teenage Girl Scouts in light of the cuteness factor of little Brownies).

   There’s no pretense that the Girl Scouts are making the cookies themselves, or otherwise engaged in stereotypically female endeavours–rather, they’re selling. To the best of my knowledge, Boy Scouts also sell (when I was in the program, Scout Fair tickets and popcorn; I know the popcorn’s still around). It actually strikes me as a reasonable balance between the two programs.
9. Kevinf Says:
   April 4, 2007 at 12:42 pm

   Matt W,

   Scout troops in the church get nailed on Friends of Scouting as well, in the form of an assessment generated by the local council, and all money raised goes directly to the council. Unlike GS Cookies, there is no benefit to those who donate, other than the tax write-off. As to whether or not the programs are sexist, I’d pretty much say that the way cub scouts and boy scouts in the church are run on a very sexist basis. Great idea of having a pinewood derby for the primary girls. Of course, after witnessing and presiding as cubmaster at way too many pinewood derbies, I really believe that they should also have a derby just for the adults, so they can compete with their extended wheel base, polished axle, narrow tread tire cars, and let the boys (and girls) actually do their own.

   By the way, I make some pretty mean chocolate chip cookies. Does that make me non-sexist?
10. Kristine Says:
    April 4, 2007 at 5:41 pm

    Sam, I agree–it would be straining at gnats* to find anything objectionable about Girl Scout cookies. I am completely in favor of everything about them (especially Thin Mints).

    *Kevin B., I know there’s some complicated Greek linguistics/NT cultural history problem with this phrase–I just can’t remember what it is. I don’t mind you correcting me in the comments, but I can also go look it up. Just thought I’d save you the trouble
11. Kevin Barney Says:
    April 4, 2007 at 6:52 pm

    Kristine, you’re right, although it’s not that complicated or even grounded in Greek. The expression was supposed to be strain out gnats, and due to a printing error it became strain at gnats. But that wording became traditional, so it has been left in the KJV. (IE people will strain gnats out of their cup of water before drinking it, but they’ll swallow camels.)

    Thin mints are great, but my favorites are those caramel ones.
12. Matt W. Says:
    April 4, 2007 at 7:42 pm

    Samoas…. Oh so deliscious…. *drool*
13. Kristine Says:
    April 4, 2007 at 8:34 pm

    Ah, Kevin, I knew I could count on you!!
14. An observer Says:
    April 4, 2007 at 10:32 pm

    I just thought I should mention that the caramel ones used to be called Samoas, but now they are “Caramel Delights.” I don’t have the expertise of a girl scout, but I did buy 8 boxes of them.
15. Matt W. Says:
    April 4, 2007 at 10:54 pm

    THe are Caramel Delights in some locations and Samoas in others. Supposedly, the names all depend on the baker a counsil uses.
16. meems Says:
    April 7, 2007 at 10:37 am

    I just ate a box of them and they were called Samoas.
17. jab Says:
    April 7, 2007 at 5:02 pm

    KevinF, I heard the young-marrieds ward in our stake is has a Pinewood Derby every year for their “manrichment”. So maybe you just need to suggest it to the right person…

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