Did I say that 75% of Mormon men, especially return missionaries, should be thrown in jail and prevented from breeding, or are you just putting words in my mouth? Why do you feel the need to do that?

Lonny, I understand completely that we (all of the bloggers who comment here) might not be able to reach a full agreement/settlement on many things we discuss (to “resolve them”), but I would like to fulfill at least the “amicable” portion of the definition. I respect your right to have your opinion, but your tone is anything but amicable and cannot produce true dialogue in its ennobling sense.

We actually agree on some key points, but our conclusions simply are diametrically opposed. I have tried to be civil and learn from your comments. I mean that sincerely. However, I will not respond to continuous monologue-like diatribes that do not reflect an attempt on your part to grant me the same courtesy.

Good night.

You are correct. 75% of all Mormon men, especially returned missionaries, should not only be in jail, but be prevented from breeding.

Please write a letter to President Hinkley asking permission to be sealed to him or another General Authority. They are the only ones righteous enough for many Mormon women, or so it seems.

Polygamy was instituted, in large part, to bring about a righteous progeny, with born-under-the-covenant blessings associated with the Melchizedek Priesthood. Children born of these unions would be sealed or connected back to God via an unbroken line of Priesthood lineage, thus restoring what should have continued since the Garden of Eden. 19th century polygamy would have secured a great victory for the Church in terms of providing a very righteous, Priesthood holding generation to greet Jesus upon his glorious return to earth.

Those responsible for LDS polygamy believed in the poetry of this doctrine, and Jesus’ long awaited return to a righteous welcoming committee. But Jesus didn’t return as anticipated, and the promise of polygamy’s victory quickly turned into the “agony of defeat”, succombing to the unrelenting and unforgiving mechanics of economics. Polygamy, like Soviet style communism sounds good in theory, but is doomed to defeat – beyond a few years – from the outset.

Polygamy brought about elitism. The Church reports that polygamy was practiced by only a few. This is most correct, as the number of polygamists is limited to the number of eligable females. And it was never about increasing the number of children, although one would think so. What it was concerned about is increasing the number of “worthy” children having a Priesthood lineage or connection (sealing) back to God. Who better to produce such children of worthy linage than high ranking Church Authorities? Moreover, righteous men holding the MPriesthood eventually found the promise of Mormonism to be empty, pre-empted to failure by the very men who told them to keep the commandments.

Bring your camera

You are right that births are split about 50/50, but how many of those boys will grow up to be good eligible husbands? In 2001, there were 588,490 female victims of domestic violence. Those are just the reported cases! Would you want your daughters to marry the men that beat those women? In 2005, there were over 2 million men in Federal or State prisons or in local jails. While I’m sure that not all those inmates are bad people, would you want your daughters to marry from that pool of men?

Not all men want to be good husbands and good fathers. Why should women be forced to choose from the bad apples?

Polygamy and the United Order/Communism)are lived today, and there are relatively successful models of each.

The United Order, as ordained by God, and promoted by LDS prophets was lived/practiced in southern Utah in a town called Orderville. It was the most successful model of any of the communities that practiced the United Order form of communism in the 19th century. It failed, despite the Church’s and residents’ best intentions.

LDS polygamy, the form taught by Joseph, required that a man take as many wives as possible to ensure his and his family’s optimal eternal reward.

Birth statistics indicate that in any year group of any significant population size (The population size must be large enough to allow for statistcal significance) 50% will be female, and of course 50% male. To practice the LDS, God ordained model of polygamy, only 25% of males will be successful if they take just 2 wives. This means that the remaining 75% of Mormon males will not enjoy their promised eternal reward, as women from their age cohort (or near it) will be out of the marriage market, as they will be married eternally to someone else. There’s no one else to marry, unless you go to younger, and then younger again cohorts These are the brutal mathematics of enforced polygamy, as practiced today by the Fundamentalists under a theocracy.

Consider the plight of a 25 year old Elder competing for a mate of his age cohort. Females will likely be attracted to more mature/older cohort males holding higher, more elite Priesthood offices, thus allowing a greater chance of exhaltation.

The God of Joseph’s polygamy, who wants to bring about the eternal life of all men, has a pre-determined failure rate of at least 75%. Something is wrong with Joseph’s math, as God wants all to succeed in returning to him with fullest glory.

Given these outcome criteria, polygamy is a purely evil abomination, Book of Mormon doctrine aside. President Hinkley knows these failure outcomes, That’s why he says he “thinks” its not doctrinal. Again, God wants all his children to return to him, not just the 25% or fewer who were able to secure 2 or more wives at the expense of others.

The polygamy marriage model will be successful by those who chose to live it voluntarily, and not by force, and outside the boundaries of a theocracy.

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Oh. my. achin. stomach. I keep going back to this comment and laughing until I cry.

I’m no apologist for the practice, mind you, but I wouldn’t presume to condemn all instances of it based on an experience with a fundamentalist group which, by definition, is outside the sanction of the Church.

In other words, I’m broad-minded enough to think that if a practice is ordained by God it just might have different effects than if it is instituted and operated completely by men.

A good example is the United Order. I presume that when and if this system is instituted by God, it will run successfully, even if not always smoothly. If instituted by men, forget it.