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	<title>Comments on: Your Friday Firestorm</title>
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		<title>By: mi</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/15/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35157</link>
		<dc:creator>mi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 03:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35157</guid>
		<description>Wow... Blogs never sleep! Amazing what happens when one leaves to take a child to urgent care. :]

Thanks, Steve, for 174.

This is turning into bickering, so this is my last comment.

You don&#039;t know me, my husband, my children, or my situation -- you have no right to say what is or isn&#039;t fair to me and my children.

There are generalizations that can be made, but when it comes right down to it, there are also personalized exceptions in life that just don&#039;t fit universal stereotypes -- whether one likes it or not.

You have preconceived notions, obviously based on your own experiences. (As do I.) Just because someone else has different experiences doesn&#039;t mean that one is correct and the other wrong. What works for you, works for you. What works for me, works for me.

You would be amazed at the changes in my  perception of what it really means to be well-off and poor that I have personally experienced over the past several years.

I know my children. They have friends who crave what they have.  My children would choose their parents, even if that meant potential or actual poverty, over wealth with any other parents. And they would choose what we have right now over having a mom who worked outside the home.

We are open and honest with each other in our family. We know there are sacrifices and also blessings, and that we work together for the ultimate good of our family -- which includes FAR, FAR more than just economics.

Speaking for me and my family, and no one else: for us personally, the blessings still outweigh the risks.

You don&#039;t have to agree with it; you don&#039;t have to like it. But that is the truth for us. And since nobody else lives our lives in our actual situation, nobody else can say that it ISN&#039;T true for us. Just as I can&#039;t say that it is or isn&#039;t true for each of you in your own situations.

~ Sorry for contributing to turning the thread away from the original intent which was about... what? Oh, presiding. :]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8230; Blogs never sleep! Amazing what happens when one leaves to take a child to urgent care. :]</p>
<p>Thanks, Steve, for 174.</p>
<p>This is turning into bickering, so this is my last comment.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t know me, my husband, my children, or my situation &#8212; you have no right to say what is or isn&#8217;t fair to me and my children.</p>
<p>There are generalizations that can be made, but when it comes right down to it, there are also personalized exceptions in life that just don&#8217;t fit universal stereotypes &#8212; whether one likes it or not.</p>
<p>You have preconceived notions, obviously based on your own experiences. (As do I.) Just because someone else has different experiences doesn&#8217;t mean that one is correct and the other wrong. What works for you, works for you. What works for me, works for me.</p>
<p>You would be amazed at the changes in my  perception of what it really means to be well-off and poor that I have personally experienced over the past several years.</p>
<p>I know my children. They have friends who crave what they have.  My children would choose their parents, even if that meant potential or actual poverty, over wealth with any other parents. And they would choose what we have right now over having a mom who worked outside the home.</p>
<p>We are open and honest with each other in our family. We know there are sacrifices and also blessings, and that we work together for the ultimate good of our family &#8212; which includes FAR, FAR more than just economics.</p>
<p>Speaking for me and my family, and no one else: for us personally, the blessings still outweigh the risks.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t have to agree with it; you don&#8217;t have to like it. But that is the truth for us. And since nobody else lives our lives in our actual situation, nobody else can say that it ISN&#8217;T true for us. Just as I can&#8217;t say that it is or isn&#8217;t true for each of you in your own situations.</p>
<p>~ Sorry for contributing to turning the thread away from the original intent which was about&#8230; what? Oh, presiding. :]</p>
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		<title>By: Naismith</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/15/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35156</link>
		<dc:creator>Naismith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 02:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35156</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;â€œWhat about women who get advanced degrees and then choose to stay home? Donâ€™t they have good earning capacity when and if they return to the workforce?â€

Iâ€™ll answer that, from painful personal experience: No. Not if they havenâ€™t kept at least a toe in the working world.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I have to qualify that with a &quot;it depends.&quot;  I didn&#039;t have any trouble either after my first break of four years or my second break of nine years, but I&#039;m sure it depends on the field, one&#039;s particular degree (I have an M.A.), the industries in one&#039;s locale, etc.

When I returned to the workforce after nine years, having done very little professional during that time, I had little trouble finding a job that put me at a salary where I would have been if I&#039;d been in the workforce all that time (because for that particular job, they wanted someone with good triage and management skills, so they viewed  my years at home as a line on my resume and not a &quot;blank.&quot;)

But I live in a college town where my skills are in demand, and as it turned out the software system I had worked with at my previous (9 years earlier job) was cutting edge; it hadn&#039;t come into wide acceptance until a few years after I left the workforce to have our last two children, and had only been abandoned less than a year before I returned to the workforce.  So my skills didn&#039;t appear to be as ancient as they felt in the first few months back.

I guess I did do some freelance writing and taught a seminar and stuff during those years at home, but that was more like the tip of my pinkie, not even a full toe.

When I was preparing for the first interview in my field, I got out the box with my old books, reports, etc.  The first thing on top was a published review of a new text.  I didn&#039;t understand hardly a word of the article.  And as it turned out, I HAD WRITTEN IT.  So it does take some gearing up to get back into the swing of things.

But I can&#039;t imagine an RN or physical therapist not being able to find a good paying job as long as they have kept their certification/license.  And I truly thing the organizational skills that make us good household managers are much valued in today&#039;s workplace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>â€œWhat about women who get advanced degrees and then choose to stay home? Donâ€™t they have good earning capacity when and if they return to the workforce?â€</p>
<p>Iâ€™ll answer that, from painful personal experience: No. Not if they havenâ€™t kept at least a toe in the working world.</p></blockquote>
<p>I have to qualify that with a &#8220;it depends.&#8221;  I didn&#8217;t have any trouble either after my first break of four years or my second break of nine years, but I&#8217;m sure it depends on the field, one&#8217;s particular degree (I have an M.A.), the industries in one&#8217;s locale, etc.</p>
<p>When I returned to the workforce after nine years, having done very little professional during that time, I had little trouble finding a job that put me at a salary where I would have been if I&#8217;d been in the workforce all that time (because for that particular job, they wanted someone with good triage and management skills, so they viewed  my years at home as a line on my resume and not a &#8220;blank.&#8221;)</p>
<p>But I live in a college town where my skills are in demand, and as it turned out the software system I had worked with at my previous (9 years earlier job) was cutting edge; it hadn&#8217;t come into wide acceptance until a few years after I left the workforce to have our last two children, and had only been abandoned less than a year before I returned to the workforce.  So my skills didn&#8217;t appear to be as ancient as they felt in the first few months back.</p>
<p>I guess I did do some freelance writing and taught a seminar and stuff during those years at home, but that was more like the tip of my pinkie, not even a full toe.</p>
<p>When I was preparing for the first interview in my field, I got out the box with my old books, reports, etc.  The first thing on top was a published review of a new text.  I didn&#8217;t understand hardly a word of the article.  And as it turned out, I HAD WRITTEN IT.  So it does take some gearing up to get back into the swing of things.</p>
<p>But I can&#8217;t imagine an RN or physical therapist not being able to find a good paying job as long as they have kept their certification/license.  And I truly thing the organizational skills that make us good household managers are much valued in today&#8217;s workplace.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristine</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/15/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35155</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 01:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35155</guid>
		<description>&quot;What about women who get advanced degrees and then choose to stay home? Donâ€™t they have good earning capacity when and if they return to the workforce?&quot;

I&#039;ll answer that, from painful personal experience:  No.  Not if they haven&#039;t kept at least a toe in the working world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What about women who get advanced degrees and then choose to stay home? Donâ€™t they have good earning capacity when and if they return to the workforce?&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll answer that, from painful personal experience:  No.  Not if they haven&#8217;t kept at least a toe in the working world.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Parkin</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/15/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35154</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Parkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 00:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35154</guid>
		<description>I can assure z that if my wife, a commited pagan stay at home mom, died, it would quite undo every aspect of my life, including my economic situation.

Maybe I should hedge my bets ... a couple more wives might be just the thing!

~</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can assure z that if my wife, a commited pagan stay at home mom, died, it would quite undo every aspect of my life, including my economic situation.</p>
<p>Maybe I should hedge my bets &#8230; a couple more wives might be just the thing!</p>
<p>~</p>
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		<title>By: SilverRain</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/15/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35153</link>
		<dc:creator>SilverRain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 00:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35153</guid>
		<description>Not to mention someone could say the same about the &lt;i&gt;spiritual&lt;/i&gt; welfare of one&#039;s children, should one decide to let other people raise them.  That&#039;s the problem with such comments, they are double-edged.

Not to mention empty of reason and persuasion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to mention someone could say the same about the <i>spiritual</i> welfare of one&#8217;s children, should one decide to let other people raise them.  That&#8217;s the problem with such comments, they are double-edged.</p>
<p>Not to mention empty of reason and persuasion.</p>
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		<title>By: MCQ</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/15/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35152</link>
		<dc:creator>MCQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 00:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35152</guid>
		<description>z, you conveniently have ignored whether that supposed risk is not adequately managed by things like the divorce laws and life, disability, and health insurance.  You act like you are the first person to think of these risks.  That&#039;s just not the case.  Most people have insurance policies and other systemic mechanisms to manage such risks.  How is that not solving the problem?  Is earning capacity the only thing you care about?  What about women who get advanced degrees and then choose to stay home?  Don&#039;t they have good earning capacity when and if they return to the workforce?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>z, you conveniently have ignored whether that supposed risk is not adequately managed by things like the divorce laws and life, disability, and health insurance.  You act like you are the first person to think of these risks.  That&#8217;s just not the case.  Most people have insurance policies and other systemic mechanisms to manage such risks.  How is that not solving the problem?  Is earning capacity the only thing you care about?  What about women who get advanced degrees and then choose to stay home?  Don&#8217;t they have good earning capacity when and if they return to the workforce?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Evans</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/15/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35151</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 00:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35151</guid>
		<description>Z, that kind of attitude isn&#039;t welcome here.  You don&#039;t need to be snitty to get your point across, and saying things like &quot;well, fine, put yourself and your children at risk if you like&quot; isn&#039;t acceptable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Z, that kind of attitude isn&#8217;t welcome here.  You don&#8217;t need to be snitty to get your point across, and saying things like &#8220;well, fine, put yourself and your children at risk if you like&#8221; isn&#8217;t acceptable.</p>
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		<title>By: z</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/15/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35150</link>
		<dc:creator>z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 00:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35150</guid>
		<description>Well, fine, put yourself and your children at risk if you like.  I&#039;m sure they&#039;ll love being poor due to your undeveloped earning capacity if something happens to your husband.  And even if nothing bad happens to you, it&#039;s just not fair for you to be economically vulnerable in this way.  We don&#039;t ask men to bet their economic security on a marriage.  You&#039;re bearing more risk because you&#039;re a woman.    Why should it be this way?  Why can&#039;t the risk be shared between two supposedly equal partners?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, fine, put yourself and your children at risk if you like.  I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;ll love being poor due to your undeveloped earning capacity if something happens to your husband.  And even if nothing bad happens to you, it&#8217;s just not fair for you to be economically vulnerable in this way.  We don&#8217;t ask men to bet their economic security on a marriage.  You&#8217;re bearing more risk because you&#8217;re a woman.    Why should it be this way?  Why can&#8217;t the risk be shared between two supposedly equal partners?</p>
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		<title>By: mi</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/15/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35149</link>
		<dc:creator>mi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35149</guid>
		<description>(131) z - For me, there is no &quot;maybe you wanted to stay home&quot; and no &quot;maybe you don&#039;t feel disempowered.&quot; In my situation, I definitely WANT and CHOOSE to stay home with my children, and with that personal decision I feel NO loss of power in my marriage or my family. Others might; I do not. That is an honest personal assessment.

&quot;That [earnings] disparity is likely to affect the marriage.&quot; I don&#039;t deny the economic &quot;disparity&quot; in single income families... but why is there an  assumption that it HAS to be a negative, HAS to be detrimental to a marriage? I do not see that in my marriage at all. Others have said that money is one of many vehicles used to work together to reach shared goals. Economic disparity does not equate to disparity in relationships, in my opinion and in my experience.

You asked if I&#039;ve given thought to what would happen economically if I were widowed or divorced. I agree that for me right now, it &quot;wouldn&#039;t be pretty economically.&quot; Is it survivable and changeable? Yes. I am willing to continue to take responsibility for my current choices. I have weighed the risks and the blessings, and have chosen what works best for me and my family.

I would not presume that what works best for me is what is best for everyone in every situation.

&quot;Your choice to stay home contributes to our current situation in which women overall are less economically powerful.&quot; Please don&#039;t put the weight of the world, the entire plight of economically disadvantaged women, at the feet of SAHP. There is so much more to it than us SAHP -- and having every parent in the work force is not a magic potion that will fix it all, even if that would help close the economic gap between men and women. I&#039;m sure you realize that, even though it wasn&#039;t communicated in your statement.

Thanks for your comments. They have given me cause for introspection and a renewed realization that what I am doing is what I want to be doing and what is best for me and my family in our current situation. :]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(131) z &#8211; For me, there is no &#8220;maybe you wanted to stay home&#8221; and no &#8220;maybe you don&#8217;t feel disempowered.&#8221; In my situation, I definitely WANT and CHOOSE to stay home with my children, and with that personal decision I feel NO loss of power in my marriage or my family. Others might; I do not. That is an honest personal assessment.</p>
<p>&#8220;That [earnings] disparity is likely to affect the marriage.&#8221; I don&#8217;t deny the economic &#8220;disparity&#8221; in single income families&#8230; but why is there an  assumption that it HAS to be a negative, HAS to be detrimental to a marriage? I do not see that in my marriage at all. Others have said that money is one of many vehicles used to work together to reach shared goals. Economic disparity does not equate to disparity in relationships, in my opinion and in my experience.</p>
<p>You asked if I&#8217;ve given thought to what would happen economically if I were widowed or divorced. I agree that for me right now, it &#8220;wouldn&#8217;t be pretty economically.&#8221; Is it survivable and changeable? Yes. I am willing to continue to take responsibility for my current choices. I have weighed the risks and the blessings, and have chosen what works best for me and my family.</p>
<p>I would not presume that what works best for me is what is best for everyone in every situation.</p>
<p>&#8220;Your choice to stay home contributes to our current situation in which women overall are less economically powerful.&#8221; Please don&#8217;t put the weight of the world, the entire plight of economically disadvantaged women, at the feet of SAHP. There is so much more to it than us SAHP &#8212; and having every parent in the work force is not a magic potion that will fix it all, even if that would help close the economic gap between men and women. I&#8217;m sure you realize that, even though it wasn&#8217;t communicated in your statement.</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments. They have given me cause for introspection and a renewed realization that what I am doing is what I want to be doing and what is best for me and my family in our current situation. :]</p>
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		<title>By: MikeInWeHo</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/15/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35148</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeInWeHo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/06/your-friday-firestorm/#comment-35148</guid>
		<description>re: 164

Was I just called to repentance??

Unfortunately, Jim, today I&#039;m preoccupied with avoiding the eternal flames over which the Baptists have us ALL poised.  Therefore I must back-burner your entreaty until further notice.  The threat of telestial glory ranks low on the list of problematic afterlives available for consideration.

Is that fresh mire I smell???  Gotta run!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: 164</p>
<p>Was I just called to repentance??</p>
<p>Unfortunately, Jim, today I&#8217;m preoccupied with avoiding the eternal flames over which the Baptists have us ALL poised.  Therefore I must back-burner your entreaty until further notice.  The threat of telestial glory ranks low on the list of problematic afterlives available for consideration.</p>
<p>Is that fresh mire I smell???  Gotta run!</p>
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