The fruit eating wasn’t their only sin. They went on sinning by harkening to satan again and covering their nakedness with figleaves. Obeying is worshiping.

“That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another. God said, ‘Thou shalt not kill’; at another time He said, ‘Thou shalt utterly destroy.’ This is the principle on which the government of heaven is conducted—by revelation adapted to the circumstances in which the children of the kingdom are placed. Whatever God requires is right, no matter what it is, although we may not see the reason thereof till long after the events transpire.” –Joseph Smith

I wonder what would have happened if Adam and Eve got together and said something like, “we need to eat of the fruit and die to have children, so, lets pray and tell God we are ready to give up the garden and ask permission to eat the fruit in order to comply with the commendment to multiply and replenish the Earth.” What if God were to have revoked his earlier commandment (D&C 56: 4).

Perhaps I am just a throwback, tho.

In that sense, the garden of eden seems to be a representation of pre-earth life (and perhaps nothing more). And that would suggest no Plan-B.

As for the Fall — I see Plan A as part descriptive and part prescriptive. Specifically, the descriptive element involves the propensity of humans to rebel. The prescriptive element was the sending of Jesus Christ to cure a Fall that was inevitable.

I do not see the partaking of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge — when God has expressly forbade such partaking — to be an act that is in any way worthy of praise, especially when at least one component, i.e., Eve’s partaking, was unquestionably the result of being tricked by Satan (at least according to “official” accounts of the Church). (I recognize that each of these accounts may be metaphor.) Whether historical or metaphorical, I can never imagine an instance where succumbing to the temptations of Satan is a good thing.

In spite of all of the above, I go back to nocoolname Tom — which actually may be the coolest name on this board — and his statement that beyond the reality of a God-guided creation, a human-caused Fall, and an infinite Atonement, there isn’t much that I find in the Bible to be historically necessary. This is an intriguing thought, and may apply not only to the Bible, but to all of our Scriptures.

The Fall is, IMO, false doctrine. I know, heresy. But stay with me.

Notice the capital T, capital F fall isn’t the fall the Savior redeems us from. It’s superstitious nonsense we’ve inherited from our fathers as a way to try to understand the Creation. Adam and Eve weren’t created with immortal, perfect bodies. Why would God waste his time with something silly and ridiculous like that? We didn’t come here to experience immortality, we came here to experience mortality. Why do we insist otherwise? Not to mention that if such were the case, then God is a monstrous trickster to fill the earth (and museums) with fossil and dinosaur evidence to the contrary of “No death before the fall”, etc.

The actual fall is something each of us performs on our own, when we choose disobedience. When we choose to act like the animals we are, rather than sons and daughters of God that we wish to become. Everyone falls, ’cause everyone sins. Not because Adam and Eve “blew it” or transgressed or whatever. Whatever acts of disobedience the actual persons of Adam and Eve performed caused them to fall has nothing whatever to do with our fall. That’s all about us and our choices. See the 2nd article of Faith if you think I’m just making this up. The fall is nothing more than us separating ourselves from God by our willful acts of disobedience. This lower-case fall still requires a savior to redeem us from our follies. It simply takes the whole troublesome “no death before the fall but what do we do with T-rex teeth” dilemma and puts it where it belongs — in the rubbish heap of past folly and superstitious ignorance.

This whole eating fruit business is strictly metaphor, allegory, whatever you want to call it — we are reminded in the Temple that Adam and Eve just represent each of us, symbolically. They were given a choice — remain in the brute animal kingdom, only worrying about eating, sleeping and mating (what most of society seems to care about anyway), or become like God — forgiving, loving, caring, repenting, etc. — the higher, harder path to Godhood. Your and my choice. We can prop up our feet at the end of the day and swig our beer and fry our brains in front of the TV, and play the brute, or we can try something more noble, uplifting, and worthwhile. Something that helps us BECOME like the Savior.

Why would God waste His time creating a creature that is immortal, when His intention for said creature all along is to subject him/her to mortality in the first place? It’s a silly idea if you stop to think about it.

We act like this is a big mystery. I just think someone way back got it all wrong and everyone since then keeps perpetuating this nonsense because nobody is willing to set the record straight. Abraham, Nephi, Bruce R. and Boyd K. — they all have it wrong. No biggie really, except it helps people in the church continue in ignorance. We as seekers of the truth need truth, not ignorant superstition masquerading as truth. And yet I’ll likely get beaten with the heresy stick for saying this out loud. Sigh.

My $.02, FWIW.

I am not sure that that is defensible. Can we not use that then to argue that whatever happens is the Lord’s plan? Certainly whatever happens (or could happen–with few exceptions) will not frustrate the Lord’s plan, but wouldn’t the Lord prefer some things to go differently than they do? I am sure that we cause suffering which is not within the Lord’s plan, which, if avoided, would be a good thing.

Was it God’s will, for instance, that J and H Smith be shot? Don’t you think that the gospel would have gone forward just fine had they lived? Had we not invaded Iraq, would the Plan of Salvation unraveled?

There is the danger of buying into A. Pope’s protestation that “whatever is, is good.” I cannot stomach that. Consider Kimball’s (legendary) remarks about finding a spouse; that is, any two people who are willing to live the gospel can make a go of it. (Forgive the paraphrase.) Just like there is no valid concept of “the one” or “soul mates,” I don’t think that we can use omnipotence and omnicience as proofs of what is, essentially, predestination.