It is later than you think!

Millennialism goes through fits and spurts through Mormon history. The earliest Saints gathered in Zion expecting to be sheltered from the imminent storm. The Reformation and Utah War and later the repeal of polygamy were all interpreted as being signs of the impending doom. The World Wars and the Cold War captured the fancies of those who envisioned the last and archetypal confrontation of Good and Evil. Was 2000 AD going to be it?

July_2007_lastdaysMitt Romney’s campaign for the US Presidency has stirred the pot sufficient for opponents to circulate whispers and accusations of purported theocratic prophecies that have bubbled to the surface. A classic is the “White Horse Prophecy.” The prophecy was widely circulated by, among others, Robert W. X. Smith in his The Last Days which was repeatedly printed in the 30’s and 40’s then updated in the late sixties in order to incorporate more misconstrued modern prophet goodness. As you can see from the title, “Time is being shortened!” “It is later than you think!” and the “Greatest Sign of the 2nd Advent Has Already Occurred!” In short, get your food storage and a shotgun, because the time is now. Unfortunately, this kind of worldview is not only goofy and creepy, but also dangerous.

The White Horse Prophecy is best treated by George Cobabe’s FAIR article (PDF). Unfortunately, while Cobabe addresses the content and institutional reaction to the prophecy, he falls completely flat on historiography. He doesn’t do any source material work or track the dispersal of the prophecy. Consequently, he gives more credence to the prophecy than is even remotely warranted. Apparently the first accounts of the prophecy were recorded by two faithful Saints a decade or so after the fact and the accounts have never been publicly examined (perhaps something for the JS Papers?).

Aside from whether the prophecy is genuine or not, the Church hierarchy has officially disavowed it. Speaking at the 1918 fall conference and just before his death, President Joseph F. Smith stated:

The ridiculous story about the “red horse,” and “the black horse,” and “the white horse,” and a lot of trash that has been circulated about and printed and sent around as a great revelation given by the Prophet Joseph Smith, is a matter that was gotten up, I understand, some ten years after the death of the Prophet Joseph Smith, by two of our brethren who put together some broken sentences from the Prophet that they may have-heard him utter from time to time, and formulated this so called revelation out of it, and it was never spoken by the prophet in the manner in which they have out it forth. It is simply false: that is all there is to it.

Comments

  1. Doubtful says:

    WE all know nothing sells like fear and sex, and millenial material is always heavy on one of those two …

    I well recall a Regional Youth Fireside in San Berdo, Calif., where President Harold B. Lee referred to those present (14-18) as being THE Generation to usher in the 2nd Coming.

    Since then, I have in person (and recently) heard Boyd K. Packer’s speech (plant two trees and some decades from now sit in the shade they provide on the hammock you hang between them.) It now seems that we have raised the generation that will raise THE generation that will usher in the 2nd Coming.

    Then, of course, since the restoration, Pat. Blessings have proclaimed in a variety of language that so-and-so will be present in the flesh and without tasting death at the 2nd Coming.

    So many false starts. So much twisty language and alternate meanings.

    It is with some trepidation that I ask, Has Millenialism about run its course, or is it still truly a tenet of the Restored Gospel? Is it simply the desire on the part of all mankind to live forever without death, or was it simply a movement sweeping the US during the period following the 1st Vision that swept us along too? Do we (deep in our hearts) still believe it to be more than simply a meeting with the Savior at some time in our future when we have passed beyond the vail?

    Red, white and black horses notwithstanding …

  2. Cobabe does a decent job of explaining the 1840s roots of the WHP. While most of the prophecy cannot be corraborated from contemporary sources, one element can: that the Constitution would hang by a thread. I think we have a couple of sources on that. I can see JS saying something to that effect during the early 1840s, since he and other Mormon leaders were seeking redress from the federal government for Mormon losses in Missouri. It makes sense in its historical context, but I don’t think that JS meant it as a prophecy to be fulfilled at some unknown date in the future.

    The WHP is just one of many later reincarnations of JS’s original statements. IMO, Cobabe fails to adequately contextualize the later statements, and simply sees them as reaffirmations of JS’s original prophecy. From what I’ve seen, the church leaders have used the prophecy about the constitution hanging by a thread in times of crisis in either Zion or the nation: the 1880s (polygamy raids), 1930s (opposition to FDR and the New Deal), and 1960s (Cold War).

    As for whether or not Mormons are still millennialists, I think Elder Oaks gave a talk a few years back in GC on watching the signs of the times. In comparison to our CoC cousins, I’d say that we’re still very millennialist. But it has definitely died down since the 1980s and the end of the Cold War. Just wait until the next major crisis and you’ll see a spike again.

  3. Hehe. Great JFS quote J. You gotta love it when phrases like “ridiculous story”, “a lot of trash”, and “It is simply false: that is all there is to it” are used by top leaderhip of the church regarding folklore. Sounds like President Smith meant it.

    BTW — the phrase “It’s later than you think” invokes the classic song “Enjoy Yourself” which ironically could be seen as an “eat, drink and be merry” anthem. (My favorite version of the song was done by The Specials.)

  4. Thomas Parkin says:

    When I was still quite young – 10, or maybe 11 – I read The Late Great Planet Earth, by Hal Lindsay. It’s amazing how much I recall of it, and how frequently it will enter my thinking as I’m reading news.

    ~

  5. Kevin Barney says:

    I remember a long time ago my father thought the newly called counselor in the stake presidency was unfit for the position because the poor man had never heard of the White Horse Prophecy. I don’t know know that my dad actually believed it himself; I suspect he simply thought knowing that such a thing purportedly existed was basic church literacy. (Of course, if that is the standard then most church leaders do not deserve their callings!)

    I’m not a big signs of the times guy, and I’m glad we don’t emphasize that kind of thing so much anymore like we used to. When I was growing up, my bishop told me I would definitely be alive when the Savior returns (still possible, but becoming more doubtful with each passing year). Everyone thought it was going to happen in the year 2000.

    I suspect that we go to the well of millennialism when we want to motivate people to retrench. But the more you go to that well, the less effective it becomes, because as time goes by people can see for themselves that the predictions of prior generations haven’t materialized.

    People have been expecting the second coming since the very first generation of Christians 2000 years ago.

  6. I remember Skousen’s “Prophecy and Modern Times” from my childhood, published, I believe, in the 1950’s. It was scary to me then, but I haven’t revisited it since I’ve been married. I remember it, correctly or not, as being big on millenialism, because I used to think about how old I would be in the year 2000, and could hardly imagine that.

    Now that I am well past Y2K, I find that normal life is scary enough, without trotting out endtimes prophecies and worrying about whether paying off my mortgage is a waste of money due to the impending second coming. Needless to say, these things are not the topics of FHE lessons in our house, deferring to the basics of prayer, scripture study, and why it really is okay to be a Democrat.

  7. Nick Literski says:

    The Joseph F. Smith statement is certainly interesting. I think an interesting study could be done on the idea that LDS ecclesiastical authorities seem to be regarded as the “last word” on matters of history, whether it be the fall of Rome or what Joseph Smith may or may not have said. When a president of the LDS church says “XYZ never happened,” it doesn’t matter what other evidence may or may not exist—for most active LDS, it is “proven” that XYZ never happened, purely because of who said so.

    Mind you, I’m not trying to spur some sort of rebellion here. Surely JSF had every business declaring the prophecy false, as a theological matter. I just find it curious that so many will take unsupported historical opinions from church leaders as if they were revelations.

  8. Thanks, J. That’s interesting.

    The publication date of The Last Days supports my suspicion that the Constitution-hanging-by-a-thread is not much more than propaganda attacking the New Deal.

  9. jjohnsen says:

    Mt patriarch told me I needed to train my children well, because they would be the last before Christ returned.

  10. Doubtful, I imagine that the Church will indeed hold on to the 2nd coming, but I think that they will stick with the prudent approach of not trying to predict when.

    Hellmut, Brigham trotted out the Constitution-hanging-by-a-thread concept in the 1850’s, and John Taylor’s First Presidency did the same after Edmunds-Tucker. You see several references in Conference talks during the 1910’s and the 1920’s. While some folk may have used it against the New Deal, Mormons were widely supportive of the the New Deal.

  11. There is only one sign that I look to that will tell me anything about how close we are to the end: two prophets in Jerusalem. That is about the clearest prophecy you could have.

  12. Mike Parker says:

    For perhaps the ultimate expression of the LDS millenarianism of the 1950s and -60s, see Duane S. Crowther’s Prophecy, Key to the Future.

    Over 40 years since it was first published, and it’s still being sold to credulous Saints everywhere. (In Spanish, too!)

  13. My current bishop is absolutely, positively sure that the second coming will happen any day now. Every time the wind blows or it rains somewhere he sees it as a sign of the times. We rarely have a sacrament meeting talk on anything that does not relate to food storage, emergency preparedness, getting your homes in order, etc. It shows in nearly everything he does or says. For him the sky is always falling.

  14. Hellmut, Brigham trotted out the Constitution-hanging-by-a-thread concept in the 1850’s, and John Taylor’s First Presidency did the same after Edmunds-Tucker. You see several references in Conference talks during the 1910’s and the 1920’s. While some folk may have used it against the New Deal, Mormons were widely supportive of the the New Deal.

    Thanks for the additional information, J. Of course, Heber Grant was a notable exception, wasn’t he?

  15. Adam Greenwood says:

    The second coming won’t happen until c. 2100 AD. Its all in Spengler.

  16. Steve Evans says:

    I think the end of the world is nigh. I also support Ron Paul.

  17. When the Cubs win the World Series – or the Lions win the Super Bowl – then, just maybe, I will start looking for the Second Coming.

    I figure my job is be prepared spiritually just in case – not to spend any excess time or emotional energy worrying about it.

  18. Micha Vermeer says:

    I get the feeling that the posters before me don’t really believe in the second coming anymore, or to lower expectation of His coming.

    I do reckognize that Partiarchs are on a slippery slope saying those kind of things in blessings, but it doesn’t mean the Second Coming won’t be like anything envisioned in the book of Revelationand other scripture.

    I read the newspapers almost every day, and tensions are so tight around Israel I wonder why the Mid-East didn’t explode yet. Prophesies are coming true, only you have to read the (usually not so small anymore) news articles.

    The late rising tension between Russia and Great-Britain is also foretold, but I cant find its reference anymore. If someone could help me with this I would appreciate it.

    China becoming very powerfull is also requisite for some other prophesies.

    More and bigger wars are coming, but I’m not afraid. I go on in my daily life, and am surely not quitting my job any time soon.

    Its not only exciting, I know that all of the prophesies in scripture have been and are coming true, as sure as I know that the Book of Mormon is true.

    I realize my post is without reference, but hopefully to my credit, I do not wish to set a date or range of years.

    I just hope not to be caught offguard as in the parable’s of the thief in the night and the 5 foolish virgins. I do not fear the Second Coming.

    PS. This is my first post, so go easy on me please

  19. Steve Evans says:

    Micha, there is a big difference between signs of the times and the Second Coming. I believe in the Second Coming, but I don’t necessarily believe that North Korea or China is the keystone to the return of Christ. The rise of Britain and Russia were not foretold, contrary to your belief.

    Wars and tension in the Middle East is nothing new. People have believed that the return of Christ was imminent ever since His ascension into heaven. The key is being spiritually prepared to meet our Maker, whether in the flesh or beyond the grave.

  20. Micha, I agree with what Steve said. As to the reference to the UK and Russia, the source is the “White Horse Porphecy” that I mentioned in the post.

  21. I think this post on millenarism would be the appropriate venue to share some crucial pre-Rapture information with my fellow saints, courtesy of my three-year-old son.

    A few days before my son uttered this prophecy, my wife had purchased a large quantity of store-brand Capri-Sun style juice bags on sale, and our boys had been drinking prodigious quantities of them. On the day in question, my son was stomping around the house muttering something to himself in a low, gruff voice. Curious, my wife asked him what he was talking about. He replied, “Mom, when Jesus Christ comes to our house, he’s going to say [and at this point he changed to the low, gruff voice]: Hey, can I have one of those juice bags?

    So I’m just sayin': you might want to keep an extra Capri Sun in your 72-hour kit…

  22. Micha, Consider yourself gone easy on. :-)

    Seriously, I appreciate anyone who has the courage to provide an honest comment with a perspective that they fear is different than most they have read – and do so in such a modest manner. Thank you.

    What Steve said.

  23. I am with Ray. I find myself usually uninterested in Millenialism. I am aware of it of course and believe that Jesus will return someday. But in the meantime I have lots of other things to think about. Like HT, my family, my callings, keeping covenants etc. I figure if I am doing OK on these types of items then if Jesus happens to return all of a sudden I will be in a good position to greet him.

  24. Jeremy, does your three-year-old son know my five-year-old daughter? I burst out laughing from the memories alone.

  25. Steve Evans says:

    Jeremy, how blessed the day when Jesus comes to partake of Capri Suns of your own make.

  26. In response to Steve (#15) and to add to my conditions in #16, I also will look for the Second Coming if Ron Paul becomes president. That’s less likely than the Cubs and Lions winning in the same year.

  27. Thomas Parkin says:

    Micha,

    I agree with you, by and large. I think the establishment of the State of Israel can certinaly be seen as a fulfillment of prophecy, and a sign of the times. In general, I think the whole constricting of the world community, the whole of the place we find ourselves in historically, can be seen as a sign of the times.

    What I resist is the feeling that it may happen at any time. And that is not because I’m not a ltieralist, but because I am too much a literalist. I agree with GBH when says that there is a lot of work left to be done. Not least, the church has to become the kind of entity that can meet Christ – the bride prepared for the bridegroom. From where I’m sitting, that is clearly not yet the case – although I see a lot that leads me to believe we are heading in the right direction. I think we will be much more Zion before the end.

    I definitely beleive in the Second Coming, and I deifnitely believe we should be watching for the signs of that coming. I just think that alarmist inclinations are not likely to produce sound thinking. We can warn and be warned without saying that it is coming, you know, tomorrow. Cause it quite clearly isn’t.

    ~

  28. Micha,

    I think most of the posters here would believe in the Second Coming, as I do. I just don’t know when it will happen (ala “thief in the night”), so I try to do the best I can each day.

    Once for a Gospel Doctrine class, we tried to look objectively at how much time would need to transpire in order for many of the signs discussed in Matt 25, or the D&C, to be fulfilled, and came up with anything from a few months, to several decades or longer. I just am not so concerned as to go into huge credit card debt to buy $8000 worth of freeze dried food stuff from Greedy Harvest (or whatever), one of those millenial-driven food storage companies based in Utah. Instead, we try to do a little better each day, add to our food storage as we can, and lower our debt horizon.

    Don’t be afraid to post. We are always anxious for new perspectives, and generally only attack those that attack us first (Jettboy, are you listening?). Otherwise, after time, you’ll feel pretty comfortable, and find that there are all kinds of folks here, representing just about every stripe of active, inactive, committed, struggling, and especially confused, saints.

  29. I really enjoyed and recommend Grant Underwood’s The Millenarian World of Early Mormonism, which trace millenarian sentiments and beliefs in the Church from the restoration to the present.

  30. I’m just glad someone besides us calls them “juice bags”. And we have enough to share with Jesus.

  31. I am skeptical of the White Horse Prophecy, but I would like to bear my testimony of the Juice Bag Prophecy. It goes right along with the old primary favorite: “Jesus Wants Me For A Capri-Sun Beam.”

  32. Kristine says:

    DavidH, I agree. Underwood’s book is an underappreciated gem. A LOT of things make more sense after reading it.

  33. Cubs and Lions? Bah. Each of those cities has won championships in recent years. How about the poor saps in Cleveland?

  34. queuno, I live in OH. In order to avoid offending 98% of those in our stake, I have to cast dispersions outside this state – and Michigan is the preferred target here.

  35. When is the functional Second Coming for the vast majority of humankind? At one’s own death. When does that come? Even that’s not really clear. Incidentally, reading 1830s church papers has brought to my attention writings by Cowdery/Phelps that seemed to appreciate that fact in complex ways that I think are missed in standard treatments of millenarianism (I don’t remember this line in Underwood’s book, but I haven’t read it for a few years).

    Staples, what about the High Horse prophecy? Or is that a principle?

  36. In the late 70s, there was a guy in our ward who was a self-styled expert on the sign of the times, with the newspaper clipping collection to prove it. He went around to wards doing this wild, rapid-fire presentation for firesides. Someone finally discovered some of the scriptures he was citing weren’t actually scriptures, and a little later it was discovered that he was … wait for it … schizophrenic.

  37. Micha Vermeer says:

    “(…) As to the reference to the UK and Russia, the source is the “White Horse Porphecy” that I mentioned in the post.”

    Ah, this is what I didn’t know. Thanks. I didn’t read this book, and have only heard of the White Horse prophesy from others, and that in a negative way, so in my mind this prophesy was/is false doctrine. The connection between this and the Russia/GB prophesy I have not been aware of, though I will continue to passively monitor the events between these countries.

    “Wars and tension in the Middle East is nothing new.”

    I know, but it stay’s interesting seeing the continually escalating events to keep an eye on.

    “People have believed that the return of Christ was imminent ever since His ascension into heaven. The key is being spiritually prepared to meet our Maker, whether in the flesh or beyond the grave.”

    I completely agree with you here, as well as with Thomas Parkin.

    Kevinf,

    The whole point of the prophesies in scripture is to not have His coming be like the parable as a thief in the night.

    I’m more often concerned, not afraid. :)

    Thank you all.

  38. Mike Parker says:

    Micha #36:

    “Wars and tension in the Middle East is nothing new.”

    I know, but it stay’s interesting seeing the continually escalating events to keep an eye on.

    Actually, things were a lot worse in the late 1960s and early 1970s, when Israel was engaged in open warfare (tanks, planes, and troops) against Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia. And then there was direct confrontation between Syrian and Israel in Lebanon in 1982. As bad as the Intifadas since then have been, it’s been a lot worse.

    The thing that puzzles me is how many people (inside and outside of the Church) connect modern events to the scriptures, but when those modern events pass — the end of the Cold War, the passing of the Gulf War without nuclear exchanges, etc. — they try to reinterpret the same scriptures to apply to a completely different situation that follows. (The undisputed king of this is Jack Van Impe.)

  39. Nick Literski says:

    There’s nothing new about that, Mike. From the earliest days of christianity, believers have been interpreting current events as signs of an imminent second coming of Jesus. One of my favorite memories of this occured while I was in a married student ward at Utah State University during the first Gulf War. Our elders’ quorum president, complete with awed tones and watery eyes, taught an entire lesson on how Sadaam Hussein was the anti-christ, and the conflict was going to bring about the Battle of Armageddon in a very short time.

    I wonder how he feels about his lesson today?

  40. I have to agree with Nick.

    Ever since Christianity began christians have always believed that the end is right around the corner. While many would think this is prudent, I think it give christianity in general a nasty edge of fatalism.

    I’ve heard it more than once in Utah (of course) that “Why should we care about the environment (national debt/other far reaching issues) because Jesus will be here within 50 years, my Stake President told me.”

    This is just folly. And it seems to me that with patriarchs and such this fatalistic edge is worse in the LDS church than others. Sure I get a lot of flak for not believing such prophecies of imminent doom and often get acused of not believeing in the second coming. But I’d figure I’d rather live in the moment as if the world was not going to end and what I did was of vital importance than to throw it away waiting for the comet to come.

  41. Re #20 & 24, Out of the mouths of babes. Jeremy’s son hit the nail on the head.

  42. John Mansfield says:

    So, what do you do with all those New Testament and Doctrine and Covenants verses about signs of the times?

  43. Mansfield, I have outlined my perceptions here.

  44. Sheldon Miller says:

    We of course are not the only millenarian religion that deals with the nonoccurence of the second coming. A great book on this is Ron Numbers “The Disappointed : Millerism and Millenarianism in the Nineteenth Century”

    It is hard to get too excited about signs and portents when we have a church president who is as stongly post-millenarian as Pres. Hinckley seems to be.

  45. I have to disagree with the statements saying that the only Russia reference is from the “White Horse Prophesy.” There are academic/religious references (both Mormon and non) pointing to this from Ezekiel 38:2-6.

    I’m at work so I can’t get too specific, but here is a quick cut/paste from The Battle of Armageddon
    Compiled by Mark T. Dalby.

    Among the nations that attack Israel will be:
    Gomer = Germany,
    Tubal = Tobolsk (Russia),
    Meshech = Moscow (Russia),
    Togarmah = Turkey;
    Gomer and Magog = Russia;
    Persia = Iran;

    and…

    JD, O PRATT 15:338 “When you see the nations of the earth, …Russia and other nations on the continent of Asia, together with many in Europe, gather up against Jerusalem…

  46. My issue with fervent Millenialism is that….

    1. The signs of the times are not fulfilled. We are closer with the growth of the church and the rise of the state of Isreal but there are many more things that still need to occur.
    2. Jesus himself in the NT stated that it would come as a thief in the night
    3. With #1 and #2 local people (SP’s EQP’s, PAT’s) in authority in the church need to stop making claims that the event is imminent. They have no idea to be frank when the return of the Messiah will occur.

  47. Micha,

    The whole point of the prophesies in scripture is to not have His coming be like the parable as a thief in the night.

    I agree, so the emphasis is on trying to be as prepared on as many levels as possible, but still no one knows, although, as I pointed out in the Gospel Doctrine discussion in # 27, there are things that could transpire quickly that would make the millennium imminent. I believe, however, that whether it is imminent or not should not be a factor in what I am doing on a daily basis. I should be concentrating my efforts to be as good a disciple as I can, and having charity and faith.

    I take your point about the “thief in the night” parable that a wise steward is ready. However, if I remember to lock my doors, take care of my things, and act in accordance with gospel principles, then I don’t have to stay up every night, all night, watching. You only get tired, cranky, and disaffected. The daily tough grind of living and enduring really is the hard work.

  48. Latter-day Guy says:

    I think that a focus on Millenialism has some of the same effects (both pro and con) as a focus on hell. I remember sitting through a program on EWTN (Catholic TV) about the horrors of hell and it was really quite a frightening experience even though I do not subscribe to the Catholic view. Similarly, Millenialism is used to get saints to do some of the things they ought to but either don’t want to or haven’t found time for.

    My question then is this: Does this focus, creating momentary fear and fervor and fading eventually, do more harm than good? Does it lessen the effect the next time your Bishop needs to scare you into doing something? Do members’ perceptions of the scriptures change (ie: do they trust prophecies less?).

  49. Steve Evans says:

    Carson, I believe you are full of it. Soon, someone who actually is credentialed will comment on your comment, but I just wanted to be the first to say it.

  50. Steve Evans,
    Don’t be so rash :)

    I just stated that it wasn’t the only reference, not that the references were accurate.

  51. Carson, Steve might have been rash, but you have to admit it was an amazing way to say what he said. At least I have to admit it, since I did a pretty good spit take when I read it.

  52. Ronito, I couldn’t agree more.

    In our culture we see the wars in the middle east as signs of the times. Taken to the extreme its as if the bigger the mess we get in in Iraq the sooner Christ will come. In the words of Johnny Cash “its going by the book”. Johnny sings a good song but seeing armageddon as our ultimate fate will unfortunately make us passive and unrespondent to the conflicts of the middle east.
    Call me a dreamer but wouldnt it be great if peace prevailed and we could avoid all the armageddon stuff.

  53. What Carson’s describing is fairly typical dispensationalist fundamentalist “end times” theory, which, often to their surprise, rests upon relatively recent interpretive work. Many of those interpretations {Gomer = Germany and so forth} originate from British and American fundamentalist writers around the turn of the last century – John Nelson Darby kicked the whole thing off, but people like Louis Bauman and Arno Gaebelein followed up hard.

    Ezekiel’s Gog, for example, is identified with the’ king in the North’ from Daniel 11, who could only be Russia. The identification of Gomer as Germany is fairly complicated, but has to do with tracing where, according to Jewish tradition, the heirs of Gomer (a descendant of Japheth) eventually settled. Eventually, Gomer is supposed to be forced into an alliance with Magog, which meant that the Nazi-Soviet pact made everybody very excited, until it fell apart.

    Most of these identifications are made in the Scofield Bible, a favorite of the fundamentalists published around 1910 or so.

  54. Joshua A. says:

    I think that the most significant portent of the millenium to date was the death of Dumbledore. In 51 hours 7 minutes (now 6 minutes) I’ll be well on my way to discovering more…

    On a slightly more serious note, I find it interesting that American millenialist writers seem to somehow miss where Zechariah writes that ALL nations will be gathered against Jerusalem. To leave out the only nation that currently has a prayer of defeating the existing State of Israel is a conspicuous omission indeed.

  55. Thank you, Matt B.

  56. Nick (39) –

    Your account is one reason why I’m actually glad for the recent (last few years) emphasis on teaching from the assigned materials and heavily correlated “Teachings” series.

    Priesthood is my favorite meeting of the block, and I hate it when some idiot ruins it by offering his personal philosophy, mingled with scripture.

  57. Ray (34) –

    You’re a man after my own heart (raised in the thick of the AFC North).

  58. The last Sunstone had a very interesting article about Mormonism and Transhumanism. What captivated me most about the article was the idea that the millennial prophecies could in someway be at least partially avoided by the collective LDS positive influence on the world. Jonah and Nineva is mentioned as the biblical precedent for such prophecy dodging (this was not the major theme of the article by any means).

    I’m not propagating or implying a personal subscription to the possibly of such prophecy avoidance, but it has been food for thought. (Any thoughts from all ye blog dawgz?).

    At any rate in my experience the worst fruit produced by the modern church member’s strong millennialist views is extreme apathy for current political/civic/humanitarian issues. Why care at all if Christ is coming THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW!

  59. Gavin Guillaume says:

    Funny story this past Sunday – our bishop was going to hold a youth fireside with the topic of “All Questions Answered – All Truth Revealed”, an open QA for the youth to submit questions anonymously on doctrine, practice, standards, etc. The bishop was standing with the clerks and one asked, “When is the hour of the Savior’s return?”, to which our bishop replied — “Just come tonight — all will be revealed.”

    Maybe we’d get better GC viewership if they threw in teases like that. :)

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