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	<title>Comments on: Your Friday Firestorm #8</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/10/your-friday-firestorm-8/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/10/your-friday-firestorm-8/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/10/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36154</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2007 13:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36154</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On the issue of castration and Mormons, the current movie September Dawn, shows a castration scene, where a mans scrotum and testicles are cut off and pinned to the side of the house, no medical treatments to stop the bleeding, or anything like that, so he man may have bleed to death.  Did Mormons just cut the whole package off for sexual crimes or for being apostates to the Church?

When I left the mormon Church in SLC, Utah I had three men from the priesthood ward level come knocking on my door.  I was married and endowed in the temple.  I thought they were coming to do something to me..in Modern Day..I had heard castration was often practiced against members who left the church.  I know the Endowment sessions and washing/anoitings have changed, you do no go nude totally for the washings/anoitings anymore. You don&#039;t have to get in a tub of water anymore. Gee what are these Mormons thinking?

The Mormon Church has Blood on their Hands...they are not the true church if they have Blood on their hands???]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the issue of castration and Mormons, the current movie September Dawn, shows a castration scene, where a mans scrotum and testicles are cut off and pinned to the side of the house, no medical treatments to stop the bleeding, or anything like that, so he man may have bleed to death.  Did Mormons just cut the whole package off for sexual crimes or for being apostates to the Church?</p>
<p>When I left the mormon Church in SLC, Utah I had three men from the priesthood ward level come knocking on my door.  I was married and endowed in the temple.  I thought they were coming to do something to me..in Modern Day..I had heard castration was often practiced against members who left the church.  I know the Endowment sessions and washing/anoitings have changed, you do no go nude totally for the washings/anoitings anymore. You don&#8217;t have to get in a tub of water anymore. Gee what are these Mormons thinking?</p>
<p>The Mormon Church has Blood on their Hands&#8230;they are not the true church if they have Blood on their hands???</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/10/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36229</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeremy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36229</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PS.
Re #s 60, 68, 70.  Do any of you know what the &quot;sexual crimes&quot; this Lewis was accused of?  What was he convicted of? It is not hard to imagine that frontier justice for pedophilia or something like that included castration.

Of course, even with that being said, these days it is hard to justify the idea of a bishop heading up the posse.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS.<br />
Re #s 60, 68, 70.  Do any of you know what the &#8220;sexual crimes&#8221; this Lewis was accused of?  What was he convicted of? It is not hard to imagine that frontier justice for pedophilia or something like that included castration.</p>
<p>Of course, even with that being said, these days it is hard to justify the idea of a bishop heading up the posse.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/10/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36228</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeremy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:39:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36228</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Castration puts excommunication in a different light, doesn&#039;t it?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Castration puts excommunication in a different light, doesn&#8217;t it?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/10/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36159</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36159</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have heard criticism in my ward for voicing my position, but I have long felt that any bishopric which carries out a nighttime castration by ambush on a ward member should not be sustained.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have heard criticism in my ward for voicing my position, but I have long felt that any bishopric which carries out a nighttime castration by ambush on a ward member should not be sustained.</p>
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		<title>By: Keithb</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/10/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36227</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Keithb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36227</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Keller,

Thank you for the clarifications in #60. I confused two incidents by relying on memory rather than going back and checking original sources. Since this is a &quot;firestorm&quot; one of my intentions was to sensationalize.
 I am not sure about your point #2 though.  I think there is some evidence that men with higher &quot;status&quot; in the church could get the wife they wanted at the expense of others feelings. For example Henry Jacobs loved his wife.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keller,</p>
<p>Thank you for the clarifications in #60. I confused two incidents by relying on memory rather than going back and checking original sources. Since this is a &#8220;firestorm&#8221; one of my intentions was to sensationalize.<br />
 I am not sure about your point #2 though.  I think there is some evidence that men with higher &#8220;status&#8221; in the church could get the wife they wanted at the expense of others feelings. For example Henry Jacobs loved his wife.</p>
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		<title>By: Norbert</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/10/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36226</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Norbert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I love you, Justin.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love you, Justin.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/10/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36225</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36225</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[According to Peterson, Snow was joined by the Manti bishopric and a couple of others in ambushing Lewis.

Joseph Young was furious when he heard about the attack.

Fifteen years later, while traveling from Springville to Manti, Snow was confronted by four armed men, apparently seeking revenge.  Snow identified two of them as &quot;Lewis&quot; and &quot;Tom.&quot;  The four men convinced Snow to go for a walk.  &quot;Lewis&quot; hit Snow with the butt of his shotgun.  Snow reacted by throwing one of the men to the ground.  Snow then either pulled his own gun or wrestled one away from his captors and shot two of them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to Peterson, Snow was joined by the Manti bishopric and a couple of others in ambushing Lewis.</p>
<p>Joseph Young was furious when he heard about the attack.</p>
<p>Fifteen years later, while traveling from Springville to Manti, Snow was confronted by four armed men, apparently seeking revenge.  Snow identified two of them as &#8220;Lewis&#8221; and &#8220;Tom.&#8221;  The four men convinced Snow to go for a walk.  &#8220;Lewis&#8221; hit Snow with the butt of his shotgun.  Snow reacted by throwing one of the men to the ground.  Snow then either pulled his own gun or wrestled one away from his captors and shot two of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Evans</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/10/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36224</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Evans]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36224</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[See, NOW this is getting interesting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, NOW this is getting interesting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/10/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36158</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36158</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;Bishop Warren S. Snow forcibly castrated twenty-four-year-old Thomas Lewis, whose “crime” was wanting to marry a young woman that was desired by an older man as a plural wife. Brigham Young wrote in a letter his approval after the fact in 1857. See Quinn Mormon Heirarchy.&lt;/em&gt;

Actually, citing John A. Peterson&#039;s master&#039;s thesis on Warren Snow, Quinn states that Snow castrated Lewis in 1857 for an undisclosed sex crime (Peterson writes that Lewis &quot;was being taken by night to the penitentiary in Salt Lake to serve a sentence for what appears to have been a sexual crime&quot;).

Quinn&#039;s footnote adds: &quot;Some reminiscent accounts confused this 1857 incident involving a Welshman with an 1859 incident in which a diary referred to an unnamed bishop who had just castrated a young Danish man so that the bishop could marry his girlfriend....Some reminiscent accounts claim the bishop in this 1859 castration was Warren Snow.  This indicates either that Bishop Snow committed a second castration (not inconceivable in view of Brigham Young&#039;s approval of the 1857 castration) or that later accounts mistakenly blamed him for a castration performed by someone else two years later&quot; (&lt;i&gt;Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power&lt;/i&gt;, 250-51, 535).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Bishop Warren S. Snow forcibly castrated twenty-four-year-old Thomas Lewis, whose “crime” was wanting to marry a young woman that was desired by an older man as a plural wife. Brigham Young wrote in a letter his approval after the fact in 1857. See Quinn Mormon Heirarchy.</em></p>
<p>Actually, citing John A. Peterson&#8217;s master&#8217;s thesis on Warren Snow, Quinn states that Snow castrated Lewis in 1857 for an undisclosed sex crime (Peterson writes that Lewis &#8220;was being taken by night to the penitentiary in Salt Lake to serve a sentence for what appears to have been a sexual crime&#8221;).</p>
<p>Quinn&#8217;s footnote adds: &#8220;Some reminiscent accounts confused this 1857 incident involving a Welshman with an 1859 incident in which a diary referred to an unnamed bishop who had just castrated a young Danish man so that the bishop could marry his girlfriend&#8230;.Some reminiscent accounts claim the bishop in this 1859 castration was Warren Snow.  This indicates either that Bishop Snow committed a second castration (not inconceivable in view of Brigham Young&#8217;s approval of the 1857 castration) or that later accounts mistakenly blamed him for a castration performed by someone else two years later&#8221; (<i>Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power</i>, 250-51, 535).</p>
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		<title>By: TT</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/10/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36223</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TT]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/your-friday-firestorm-8/#comment-36223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;third, a metaphorical use of one who abstains from marriage without necessarily being impotent; a celibate male.&lt;/i&gt;

Kevin, on what basis is this definition made?  I confess ignorance on this question, but my impression is that this is a monastic understanding, not an early Christian one.  Do you have some references to back this up?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>third, a metaphorical use of one who abstains from marriage without necessarily being impotent; a celibate male.</i></p>
<p>Kevin, on what basis is this definition made?  I confess ignorance on this question, but my impression is that this is a monastic understanding, not an early Christian one.  Do you have some references to back this up?</p>
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