Comments on: The Church of Bloggernacle Saints? http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/13/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/ A Mormon Blog Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:58:00 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: onelowerlight http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/13/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111903 onelowerlight Tue, 04 Sep 2007 05:20:12 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111903 What is DAMU? What is DAMU?

]]> By: Zelophehad’s Daughters http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/13/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111904 Zelophehad’s Daughters Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:49:15 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111904 [...] The bloggernacle (or at least BCC) is actually of use to someone in real life! [...] [...] The bloggernacle (or at least BCC) is actually of use to someone in real life! [...]

]]> By: Equality http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/13/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111902 Equality Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:29:34 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111902 For me, the Bloggernacle served as the gateway to the DAMU, and for that I am grateful. For me, the Bloggernacle served as the gateway to the DAMU, and for that I am grateful.

]]> By: me2 http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/13/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111901 me2 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:43:35 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111901 nobody special, You are not alone in your perceptions. I too have witnessed prevalent <em>pouncing</em><em>.</em> nobody special,
You are not alone in your perceptions. I too have witnessed prevalent pouncing.

]]> By: John C. http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/13/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111900 John C. Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:42:55 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111900 nobody special, Obviously, I have concerns that run along similar lines. That said, I don't believe the bloggernacle is a place where "simple faith" (a phrase I hate because I don't believe it ever describes reality) is disparaged, but it could become one (except I did it just then...hmm...I hate the phrase, but I don't find the concept of having faith or acting in faith offensive; instead I find it laudible). It is (I think) a real danger if we begin to take ourselves too seriously around here (not that there is real danger of that, as many of the comments on this thread have hopefully demonstrated). Steve will tell you that in our double secret, back channel, cool kid chats I have a real history of fretting about this very thing. Something about the second-hand presentation of the bloggernacle session made my expression of worry boil over into a post. Again, I don't see this as a current problem (at least, not at the blogs I frequent), but I know the tendency in myself and suspect it likely to be present in others. That said, argument's are always strengthened by actual evidence. Without evidence, we can't tell if you are basing your feeling on something everyone could agree with or if you are just giving some portion of the bloggernacle a particularly uncharitable reading. If my post came off as a call to repentance, it is because I think we all need to repent all the time anyway. It shouldn't be read as an attempt to call specific bloggernacklers to repentance (especially not the members of the esteemed panel). Fundamentally, the thought that the church might not be recognizable in what we do here worries me (perhaps because I believe it is easily recognizable; it makes me wonder about the changes in me). But, as stated above, I am a fretter. nobody special,
Obviously, I have concerns that run along similar lines. That said, I don’t believe the bloggernacle is a place where “simple faith” (a phrase I hate because I don’t believe it ever describes reality) is disparaged, but it could become one (except I did it just then…hmm…I hate the phrase, but I don’t find the concept of having faith or acting in faith offensive; instead I find it laudible). It is (I think) a real danger if we begin to take ourselves too seriously around here (not that there is real danger of that, as many of the comments on this thread have hopefully demonstrated). Steve will tell you that in our double secret, back channel, cool kid chats I have a real history of fretting about this very thing. Something about the second-hand presentation of the bloggernacle session made my expression of worry boil over into a post. Again, I don’t see this as a current problem (at least, not at the blogs I frequent), but I know the tendency in myself and suspect it likely to be present in others.

That said, argument’s are always strengthened by actual evidence. Without evidence, we can’t tell if you are basing your feeling on something everyone could agree with or if you are just giving some portion of the bloggernacle a particularly uncharitable reading. If my post came off as a call to repentance, it is because I think we all need to repent all the time anyway. It shouldn’t be read as an attempt to call specific bloggernacklers to repentance (especially not the members of the esteemed panel). Fundamentally, the thought that the church might not be recognizable in what we do here worries me (perhaps because I believe it is easily recognizable; it makes me wonder about the changes in me). But, as stated above, I am a fretter.

]]> By: nobody special http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/13/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111899 nobody special Wed, 15 Aug 2007 06:52:02 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111899 W-hoa there now, J. Stapley. Nowhere did I make any accusation of anyone being apostate and I never meant to imply such a thing. Perhaps I didn't say what I'm thinking well enough, though. I'm not saying that the bloggernacle is worthless, evil or faithless. I don't think working through questions in faith is a bad thing. I think there is plenty of good to be found in the bloggernacle. I just thought that what Geoff B. said was relevant to the original post and the consideration about representation. Sometimes it does feel elitist to me. Sometimes (I agree with onelowerlight that it's not always or all blogs) standard church answers are met with some hostility or frustration and I think that reduces the representative nature of the bloggernacle and makes it a community that isn't as inclusive as it could be. Perhaps I should have just linked to Geoff's post and left it at that. He said things far better than I did. But as Geoff B said "Please do not take offense because no offense is intended." W-hoa there now, J. Stapley.
Nowhere did I make any accusation of anyone being apostate and I never meant to imply such a thing. Perhaps I didn’t say what I’m thinking well enough, though. I’m not saying that the bloggernacle is worthless, evil or faithless. I don’t think working through questions in faith is a bad thing. I think there is plenty of good to be found in the bloggernacle. I just thought that what Geoff B. said was relevant to the original post and the consideration about representation. Sometimes it does feel elitist to me. Sometimes (I agree with onelowerlight that it’s not always or all blogs) standard church answers are met with some hostility or frustration and I think that reduces the representative nature of the bloggernacle and makes it a community that isn’t as inclusive as it could be.

Perhaps I should have just linked to Geoff’s post and left it at that. He said things far better than I did. But as Geoff B said “Please do not take offense because no offense is intended.”

]]> By: onelowerlight http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/13/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111898 onelowerlight Wed, 15 Aug 2007 06:46:22 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111898 I have found that the bloggernacle can get more edgy than the mainstream church community, but I've also found strong expressions of personal faith in the bloggernacle as well. I was following a discussion here at BCC the other day where the initial post was a little bit edgy, and was pleasantly surprised to see teachings of the church affirmed and witnessed of in many of the comments. Of course there is going to be more of a place in blogging for the edgier, more doubtful crowd, but not to the exclusion of the faithful (or, as they'd say on the old FAIR boards, the "TBMs"), and the bloggernacle seems to make room for both. What probably irks you is the idea that official teachings of the church are considered fair game for criticism and dissenting views. While agree that it can get irksome at times, I don't think that the majority of the bloggernacle has taken the next step, which is to accept this criticism as the norm. Some blogs have done it, but not most of them, IMO. I have found that the bloggernacle can get more edgy than the mainstream church community, but I’ve also found strong expressions of personal faith in the bloggernacle as well. I was following a discussion here at BCC the other day where the initial post was a little bit edgy, and was pleasantly surprised to see teachings of the church affirmed and witnessed of in many of the comments. Of course there is going to be more of a place in blogging for the edgier, more doubtful crowd, but not to the exclusion of the faithful (or, as they’d say on the old FAIR boards, the “TBMs”), and the bloggernacle seems to make room for both.

What probably irks you is the idea that official teachings of the church are considered fair game for criticism and dissenting views. While agree that it can get irksome at times, I don’t think that the majority of the bloggernacle has taken the next step, which is to accept this criticism as the norm. Some blogs have done it, but not most of them, IMO.

]]> By: J. Stapley http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/13/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111897 J. Stapley Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:23:23 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111897 nobody special, I agree with Steve here. It is a fairly serious thing to say that simple faith is not tolerated in a community. I will readily admit that a personal simple faith is, well, fairly personal and most blog posts aren't set up to be Testimony Meetings (though not even all Church meetings are set up for that and I often am strengthened by posts and comments). What I am trying to say is that to anonymously criticize a forum without any evidence that strives to be always constructive as apostate is just not particularly fair. It isn't particularly welcomed in any community online or off. nobody special, I agree with Steve here. It is a fairly serious thing to say that simple faith is not tolerated in a community. I will readily admit that a personal simple faith is, well, fairly personal and most blog posts aren’t set up to be Testimony Meetings (though not even all Church meetings are set up for that and I often am strengthened by posts and comments).

What I am trying to say is that to anonymously criticize a forum without any evidence that strives to be always constructive as apostate is just not particularly fair. It isn’t particularly welcomed in any community online or off.

]]> By: Steve Evans http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/13/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111896 Steve Evans Wed, 15 Aug 2007 02:56:31 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111896 nobody special, I'm not demanding proof of how you feel. I'm asking that you show me an example from BCC of something that makes you feel that way. Just now you said, "I have seen some of what Geoff B. was talking about... And in the months I have read, I have seen quite of bit of pouncing." Have you ever seen it here? If so, please let me know. You mention pouncing on those who simply stand up for what the church teaches, but I have not seen it here, and would really be interested in even the merest example. And yes, if you aren't able to provide any tangible reasons for your perception, then it could very well mean that you are pulling thoughts out of nowhere, couldn't it? nobody special, I’m not demanding proof of how you feel. I’m asking that you show me an example from BCC of something that makes you feel that way.

Just now you said, “I have seen some of what Geoff B. was talking about… And in the months I have read, I have seen quite of bit of pouncing.” Have you ever seen it here? If so, please let me know. You mention pouncing on those who simply stand up for what the church teaches, but I have not seen it here, and would really be interested in even the merest example.

And yes, if you aren’t able to provide any tangible reasons for your perception, then it could very well mean that you are pulling thoughts out of nowhere, couldn’t it?

]]> By: nobody special http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/13/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111895 nobody special Wed, 15 Aug 2007 01:42:33 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/the-church-of-bloggernacle-saints/#comment-111895 Steve Evans, why, if I don't provide proof of my perception, would that mean I'm just pulling my thoughts out of nowhere? My perception is just that, my own perception. I don't go around keeping a log of all the comments and posts that I have read that have led to that perception. It seems silly to demand "proof" of how I feel. Or is it because I'm not part of the club that this is required? haha Anyway, I have seen some of what Geoff B. was talking about (this is not just perception, it happens. Geoff B gave an example in his post that I linked.). From where I sit, that kind of thing should concern us all if the bloggernacle's hope is to somehow be representative of the church, whatever that means. There ought to be more room for people to say, "Hey, folks, this is what the church teaches" without getting pounced on. And in the months I have read, I have seen quite of bit of pouncing. To me, that seems incongruous with a group that wants to be representing the church. This isn't to say that everything in the bloggernacle follows this pattern. But it happens and that is a negative in my mind. Steve Evans, why, if I don’t provide proof of my perception, would that mean I’m just pulling my thoughts out of nowhere? My perception is just that, my own perception. I don’t go around keeping a log of all the comments and posts that I have read that have led to that perception. It seems silly to demand “proof” of how I feel. Or is it because I’m not part of the club that this is required? haha

Anyway, I have seen some of what Geoff B. was talking about (this is not just perception, it happens. Geoff B gave an example in his post that I linked.). From where I sit, that kind of thing should concern us all if the bloggernacle’s hope is to somehow be representative of the church, whatever that means. There ought to be more room for people to say, “Hey, folks, this is what the church teaches” without getting pounced on. And in the months I have read, I have seen quite of bit of pouncing. To me, that seems incongruous with a group that wants to be representing the church. This isn’t to say that everything in the bloggernacle follows this pattern. But it happens and that is a negative in my mind.

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