I also find Joseph’s city planning fascinating. The lots in Independence, etc. It would seem that his model didn’t work out so well, though. Was Nauvoo set up that way? I don’t seem to remember it being so…but this isn’t a particular area of focus, so I may just be ignorant.

And all of JSJ’s Zions were surrounded by communal farmland which was to be managed by those who dwelled together in the city.

Nonsense. The ancients viewed nature as hostile and uncontrollable. Forests were creepy, dangerous, haunted places. The notion of “being close to nature” is altogether an invention of modern romanticism, and it exists nowhere in any scriptures that we Mormons use.

In short: “close to nature” = “far from Jesus”

Embrace mother nature and be damned.

bbell:

Re: LDS church congregations in inner cities and near suburbs versus far suburbs and exurbs:

I think you may have missed an important cause of the exodus from inner cities to outer exurbs.

A prominent sociologist of religion offered the following thoughts on another thread with respect to our theological cousins:

“I have a Demographic question for you. If I walked into 10 COC congregations at random who would be in the pews?

“I ask because my impression is that it would be very different then my suburban LDS ward. (AKA majority of people on sunday are under 20 in my current ward) (120 kids under 12, 40-45 kids under 20 and maybe 100-120 adults)

“My feeling is that the Demographics in COC are similar to say a Episcopal or other mainline church. Tending towards older folks and singles.

“I ask this because I have observed that.

“A. Liberal theology

“Equals

“B. Low birthrates/marriage rates”

*********************************

My followup analysis–

Inasmuch as inner city/near suburban LDS wards and branches look like liberal mainline protestant congregations (which are also losing members and families with children), it must be on account of the liberality of those LDS and leaders who stay.

And, indeed, there is significant additional evidence that the inner city/near suburban LDS Church is more “liberal” than the exurban core of the Church.

That is, I would wager that in a typical inner city LDS ward or branch, we would see significantly more colored shirts, fewer ties, more prayers referring to “you” rather than “thou”, more democrats and fewer republicans, more tattoos and piercings, more women in pantsuits, more single parent homes, more adult singles generally, more undocumented workers whose first language is not english, more married women in the workplace who have children at home, more people recovering (or not recovering at the moment) from various substance or other addictions, more people receiving assistance from the government (either instead of or in addition to church assistance) than we would find in a model exurban ward of the Church. Not to mention a longer list of disaffected members who do not attend church and have requested no contact or who are on the verge of requesting name removal.

All of these seem like symptoms of a declining liberal church–not to mention the aging population (with a few newlyweds who leave relatively quickly).

People in small towns and villages and farms always have distrusted the cities, for many reasons – literacy being a minor one, IMO. The existence of a writing class actually is a major theme in ancient writings praising the cities – a “We are better than the poor, uneducated masses outside the city walls” mentality that still exists in the ivy towers of modern academia. I think that is almost indisputable.

There was a hot-selling t-shirt during my college years that had a map of the USA. It was titled “A Bostonian’s View of the USA” and had great detail along the East Coast, Chicago, Texas, moderate detail in California and absolutely nothing else. The urban writing class can be just as ignorant and biased as the rural masses.

This phenomenon of families leaving even the older suburban wards would be why a few years ago our former bishop wondered (only half-jokingly) if he would end up being released as a branch president. We are starting to grow a little again, but there are other newer, more upscale suburban areas that attract the people who used to flock here.

I wouldn’t be surprised if those in the city wards thought the same thing about the older suburban wards when they [meaning the older suburban wards] were in their prime…

But even granting your points, you’re talking about today (or, realistically, 10 years ago). As the middle- and upper-classes return to the cities, public schools will possibly increase. And at some point, the time and expense of commuting will possibly weigh toward paying more rent/mortgage and living in the city.

I didn’t say it would happen today, but the cities I’ve been in recently are far more hospitable, even to largish families, than they are rumored to be. And as more and more young LDS families start out in cities, even if they move away, they may well get the taste, and want to go back.

I don’t know if it will happen, but if you’d asked me 10 or 15 years ago, I wouldn’t have predicted the exodus from the suburbs to the cities that we’re seeing today.