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	<title>Comments on: Can Sunstone ever become legitimate?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/29/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/29/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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		<title>By: DKL</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/29/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36599</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DKL]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 18:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36599</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You pose a very good question, Steve. I do, however, object to your presumption that there is something about Sunstone that must change in order for it to become mainstream.

In fact, Sunstone as a magazine and an organization strikes me as much more constant in its outlook than the church, its doctrine, its policies, or its membership.

J. Nelson-Seawright pointed out in &lt;a href=&quot;http://mormonmatters.org/?p=21&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a recent Mormon Matters podcast&lt;/a&gt; that Hugh Nibley said of the court papers that documented Joseph Smith&#039;s treasure digging something to the effect of, &quot;If these documents are legitimate, then this is the most damaging evidence facing Mormonism&quot; (please clarify with the exact quote, J). This may have seemed to be the case in the 1960s, but the perception of Joseph Smith has changed among a large segment of the membership to accept Joseph&#039;s youthful follies. It&#039;s outlets like Sunstone that lead to this kind of gradual reshaping.

In my opinion, the church will never be happy with it&#039;s retention numbers until it is able to bring itself to embrace the Sunstone outlook openly.

Wouldn&#039;t it be great if the leaders of our church encouraged people to engage and embrace all things Mormon? Thomas Monson can quote common poetry or a song from the Les Miserables musical. Would it really hurt the church if he quoted an article from Dialogue or Sunstone?

And let&#039;s be honest: The DHO talk discouraging Mormons from reading &quot;alternative voices&quot; was totally retarded (sorry, I know he&#039;s an apostle, but if anyone here can come up with a better word than that, I&#039;ll use it). Especially since (a) neither the church&#039;s membership nor property are under threat due to persecution, and (b) the internet has made the church&#039;s century-long attempt to exert control over the availability of church-related information utterly futile.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You pose a very good question, Steve. I do, however, object to your presumption that there is something about Sunstone that must change in order for it to become mainstream.</p>
<p>In fact, Sunstone as a magazine and an organization strikes me as much more constant in its outlook than the church, its doctrine, its policies, or its membership.</p>
<p>J. Nelson-Seawright pointed out in <a href="http://mormonmatters.org/?p=21" rel="nofollow">a recent Mormon Matters podcast</a> that Hugh Nibley said of the court papers that documented Joseph Smith&#8217;s treasure digging something to the effect of, &#8220;If these documents are legitimate, then this is the most damaging evidence facing Mormonism&#8221; (please clarify with the exact quote, J). This may have seemed to be the case in the 1960s, but the perception of Joseph Smith has changed among a large segment of the membership to accept Joseph&#8217;s youthful follies. It&#8217;s outlets like Sunstone that lead to this kind of gradual reshaping.</p>
<p>In my opinion, the church will never be happy with it&#8217;s retention numbers until it is able to bring itself to embrace the Sunstone outlook openly.</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t it be great if the leaders of our church encouraged people to engage and embrace all things Mormon? Thomas Monson can quote common poetry or a song from the Les Miserables musical. Would it really hurt the church if he quoted an article from Dialogue or Sunstone?</p>
<p>And let&#8217;s be honest: The DHO talk discouraging Mormons from reading &#8220;alternative voices&#8221; was totally retarded (sorry, I know he&#8217;s an apostle, but if anyone here can come up with a better word than that, I&#8217;ll use it). Especially since (a) neither the church&#8217;s membership nor property are under threat due to persecution, and (b) the internet has made the church&#8217;s century-long attempt to exert control over the availability of church-related information utterly futile.</p>
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		<title>By: John Dehlin</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/29/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36600</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Dehlin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 20:14:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36600</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pre-2005 Sunstone Symposium MP3s are now for free at:

http://sunstoneonline.com/symposium/symp-mp3s.asp

We hope you enjoy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pre-2005 Sunstone Symposium MP3s are now for free at:</p>
<p><a href="http://sunstoneonline.com/symposium/symp-mp3s.asp" rel="nofollow">http://sunstoneonline.com/symposium/symp-mp3s.asp</a></p>
<p>We hope you enjoy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rory</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/29/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36601</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rory]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36601</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Randy (#137)

&lt;blockquote&gt;As near as I can tell, Dan has done a great job moving in this direction. Sounds like John intends to carry that torch.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Exactly - and that is a message that we can&#039;t allow to slip through with all this new energy. Dan has done a marvelous job, and he will continue to do what he does so well with the magazine and symposium.

John brings a new dynamic and a great deal of skills that are needed to now take this to a broader audience. So, while we will continue to tweak and refine and adapt, this isn&#039;t by any means an about-face.

It&#039;s fascinating to watch John and Dan work together, there&#039;s an interesting dynamic involved and they complement one another well. There are certainly some spirited discussions. It&#039;s going to be a fun ride. :)

And John, just so you know, I see your numbers in print above - that Sunstone should be somewhere in the 2%-5% of Mormon homes. I&#039;m gonna hold you to that!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Randy (#137)</p>
<blockquote><p>As near as I can tell, Dan has done a great job moving in this direction. Sounds like John intends to carry that torch.</p></blockquote>
<p>Exactly &#8211; and that is a message that we can&#8217;t allow to slip through with all this new energy. Dan has done a marvelous job, and he will continue to do what he does so well with the magazine and symposium.</p>
<p>John brings a new dynamic and a great deal of skills that are needed to now take this to a broader audience. So, while we will continue to tweak and refine and adapt, this isn&#8217;t by any means an about-face.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s fascinating to watch John and Dan work together, there&#8217;s an interesting dynamic involved and they complement one another well. There are certainly some spirited discussions. It&#8217;s going to be a fun ride. :)</p>
<p>And John, just so you know, I see your numbers in print above &#8211; that Sunstone should be somewhere in the 2%-5% of Mormon homes. I&#8217;m gonna hold you to that!</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Randy B.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/29/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36602</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Randy B.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36602</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John (#135)

I love you man.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John (#135)</p>
<p>I love you man.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Randy B.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/29/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36603</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Randy B.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36603</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Paula, that&#039;s definitely the one.

Back then (2001), Dan and others, I believe, were saying exactly what John is saying now -- there have been some mistakes in the past, but we hope to do better.  As near as I can tell, Dan has done a great job moving in this direction.  Sounds like John intends to carry that torch.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paula, that&#8217;s definitely the one.</p>
<p>Back then (2001), Dan and others, I believe, were saying exactly what John is saying now &#8212; there have been some mistakes in the past, but we hope to do better.  As near as I can tell, Dan has done a great job moving in this direction.  Sounds like John intends to carry that torch.</p>
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		<title>By: John Dehlin</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/29/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36604</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Dehlin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36604</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For those interested:

Part 1:
http://sunstonemagazine.com/other/SL99322.mp3

Part 2:
http://sunstonemagazine.com/other/SL01212.mp3

Listening to them now!  :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those interested:</p>
<p>Part 1:<br />
<a href="http://sunstonemagazine.com/other/SL99322.mp3" rel="nofollow">http://sunstonemagazine.com/other/SL99322.mp3</a></p>
<p>Part 2:<br />
<a href="http://sunstonemagazine.com/other/SL01212.mp3" rel="nofollow">http://sunstonemagazine.com/other/SL01212.mp3</a></p>
<p>Listening to them now!  :)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John Dehlin</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/29/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36605</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Dehlin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36605</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[FWIW...we&#039;re in the process of making pre-2004 MP3s free again.  More on this soon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FWIW&#8230;we&#8217;re in the process of making pre-2004 MP3s free again.  More on this soon.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Paula</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/29/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36606</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paula]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36606</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Randy B. I haven&#039;t listened to this, but the symposium session you&#039;re referring to is probably this one, at sunstoneonline.com ($1.00 to download).

  SL01212, &#039;Only Your Hearts Know&#039;: Sunstone during the Rector/Stephenson/Peck Years--Part 2: The Elbert Peck Years     - All particpants: Gary James Bergera, Eric Jones - symposium: 2001 Salt Lake Symposium   - excerpt: &#039;&#039;This paper, the second half of a history of the Sunstone Foundation during the years Daniel Rector, Linda Jean Stephenson, and Elbert Peck served as publishers and executive directors, treats the period Elbert headed the foundation. During this tumultuous time, Sunstone had to confront the impression that it somehow threatened the faith of the members of the LDS church. This included, on a perso (and summary ends there.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Randy B. I haven&#8217;t listened to this, but the symposium session you&#8217;re referring to is probably this one, at sunstoneonline.com ($1.00 to download).</p>
<p>  SL01212, &#8216;Only Your Hearts Know&#8217;: Sunstone during the Rector/Stephenson/Peck Years&#8211;Part 2: The Elbert Peck Years     &#8211; All particpants: Gary James Bergera, Eric Jones &#8211; symposium: 2001 Salt Lake Symposium   &#8211; excerpt: &#8221;This paper, the second half of a history of the Sunstone Foundation during the years Daniel Rector, Linda Jean Stephenson, and Elbert Peck served as publishers and executive directors, treats the period Elbert headed the foundation. During this tumultuous time, Sunstone had to confront the impression that it somehow threatened the faith of the members of the LDS church. This included, on a perso (and summary ends there.)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: MCQ</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/29/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36608</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MCQ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36608</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[klh:  I don&#039;t know about you, but I only have one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>klh:  I don&#8217;t know about you, but I only have one.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Randy B.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/29/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36607</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Randy B.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/can-sunstone-ever-become-legitimate/#comment-36607</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gary Bergera did a symposium discussing a draft of the second part of his history of Sunstone.  If I remember correctly, Stan played a significant role in the board&#039;s decisions that eventually led to Elbert Peck resigning as Editor.  About a month after Elbert&#039;s resignation, Stan himself resigned from the Board.  Gary did not mention why Stan left.

(Dan, or anyone else, please correct me if I&#039;m misremembering.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary Bergera did a symposium discussing a draft of the second part of his history of Sunstone.  If I remember correctly, Stan played a significant role in the board&#8217;s decisions that eventually led to Elbert Peck resigning as Editor.  About a month after Elbert&#8217;s resignation, Stan himself resigned from the Board.  Gary did not mention why Stan left.</p>
<p>(Dan, or anyone else, please correct me if I&#8217;m misremembering.)</p>
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