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	<title>Comments on: Your Friday Firestorm #11</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/07/your-friday-firestorm-11/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/07/your-friday-firestorm-11/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Peter LLC</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/07/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36995</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter LLC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 07:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36995</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;compared to internet discussion in general: this is the archetypal Senate of the Good and Truthful.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Preach on, Brother Parkin.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>compared to internet discussion in general: this is the archetypal Senate of the Good and Truthful.</p></blockquote>
<p>Preach on, Brother Parkin.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob M</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/07/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36994</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jacob M]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 23:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36994</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Joshua - he wants us to cut a lot of things out.  I&#039;m just glad, however that Steve didn&#039;t say cut it &lt;em&gt;off&lt;/em&gt;, because that would dovetail way too easily into circumcision. :(]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joshua &#8211; he wants us to cut a lot of things out.  I&#8217;m just glad, however that Steve didn&#8217;t say cut it <em>off</em>, because that would dovetail way too easily into circumcision. :(</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/07/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36993</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 23:17:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36993</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One thing that internet communication has done is to make vitriolic language less dangerous to the user than it used to be - freeing up people to be stirred up to anger, one with another.

When you risk angering someone who is standing in front of you and might take physical action against you (or call their friends to do so), there is a degree of external constraint that is absent when such a physical threat is not visible and imminent.  Trolling, especially, is less dangerous than it used to be when the words needed to be spoken, since there is no chance of the group mob mentality taking over and ending up in a life-threatening assault - especially with the availability of pseudonyms.

Since it is much safer to &quot;Stir up the hearts of men to anger, one with another&quot; from the safety of a computer, exacerbated by anonymity, I believe we are more prone to &quot;safe contention&quot; now than perhaps ever before.  Not being able to see the tears and anguish and rage and consternation caused by our words makes it more tempting to focus less on being sensitive in our communications.

I see a polarization and insensitivity in so much of the current public communication that simply wasn&#039;t there to that degree even less than 20 years ago.  I think we, therefore, are obligated to pay more attention to that tendency and concentrate more explicitly on avoiding it.  I know I have crossed that line more than I would have if someone was standing in front of me as I expressed myself.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing that internet communication has done is to make vitriolic language less dangerous to the user than it used to be &#8211; freeing up people to be stirred up to anger, one with another.</p>
<p>When you risk angering someone who is standing in front of you and might take physical action against you (or call their friends to do so), there is a degree of external constraint that is absent when such a physical threat is not visible and imminent.  Trolling, especially, is less dangerous than it used to be when the words needed to be spoken, since there is no chance of the group mob mentality taking over and ending up in a life-threatening assault &#8211; especially with the availability of pseudonyms.</p>
<p>Since it is much safer to &#8220;Stir up the hearts of men to anger, one with another&#8221; from the safety of a computer, exacerbated by anonymity, I believe we are more prone to &#8220;safe contention&#8221; now than perhaps ever before.  Not being able to see the tears and anguish and rage and consternation caused by our words makes it more tempting to focus less on being sensitive in our communications.</p>
<p>I see a polarization and insensitivity in so much of the current public communication that simply wasn&#8217;t there to that degree even less than 20 years ago.  I think we, therefore, are obligated to pay more attention to that tendency and concentrate more explicitly on avoiding it.  I know I have crossed that line more than I would have if someone was standing in front of me as I expressed myself.</p>
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		<title>By: joshua madson</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/07/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36992</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[joshua madson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 22:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36992</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve,

I agree, but cut what out?

what does he mean by spirit of contention? and stir up hearts of men to anger, one with another?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>I agree, but cut what out?</p>
<p>what does he mean by spirit of contention? and stir up hearts of men to anger, one with another?</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Russell</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/07/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36991</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric Russell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 22:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36991</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[LOL. Everyone jumps to point out that not all disagreement is contention. Obviously. I think the number of those who actually believe thus are relatively few.

The irony is that people who “contend with anger” are extremely common and that most of the time they think their anger is justified. Surely Christ’s words don’t apply to us when we’re &lt;em&gt;right&lt;/em&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL. Everyone jumps to point out that not all disagreement is contention. Obviously. I think the number of those who actually believe thus are relatively few.</p>
<p>The irony is that people who “contend with anger” are extremely common and that most of the time they think their anger is justified. Surely Christ’s words don’t apply to us when we’re <em>right</em>.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Evans</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/07/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36990</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Evans]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 22:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36990</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jesus came down for lots of reasons.  But it&#039;s clear that telling us to &lt;em&gt;CUT IT OUT!&lt;/em&gt; is part of it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus came down for lots of reasons.  But it&#8217;s clear that telling us to <em>CUT IT OUT!</em> is part of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/07/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36989</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 22:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36989</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, Joshua, I do think Jesus came down to tell us that.

That basic message is taught *way* too many times throughout the Gospels and NT for me to believe it isn&#039;t of serious import.  James 3 couldn&#039;t be clearer, and the Sermon on the Mount deals as much with bickering and contention on an a simple interpersonal level as with any other theme.  Of course, there is far more to what He taught than is encapsulated in your question, but, again, how we treat each other is the foundation of whether or not we can be called Christian - at least in the way Jesus Himself and his early apostles defined it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Joshua, I do think Jesus came down to tell us that.</p>
<p>That basic message is taught *way* too many times throughout the Gospels and NT for me to believe it isn&#8217;t of serious import.  James 3 couldn&#8217;t be clearer, and the Sermon on the Mount deals as much with bickering and contention on an a simple interpersonal level as with any other theme.  Of course, there is far more to what He taught than is encapsulated in your question, but, again, how we treat each other is the foundation of whether or not we can be called Christian &#8211; at least in the way Jesus Himself and his early apostles defined it.</p>
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		<title>By: joshua madson</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/07/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36988</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[joshua madson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 21:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36988</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know this may be the wrong question but I see a common assumption about what contention means in this verse.

I mean do we really believe that Jesus comes down in miraculous fashion only to tell the people, you know I think you bicker too much about things.

I think there is something a bit larger here than flame wars on blogs. He&#039;s talking about a spirit of contention, anger, maybe even mimetic desires and the things that lead to real conflict. A quick pull of the use of the word contention in the book of mormon seems to indicate something a little more relevant than debates over whether caffeine is ok or not or any other debate/argument.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know this may be the wrong question but I see a common assumption about what contention means in this verse.</p>
<p>I mean do we really believe that Jesus comes down in miraculous fashion only to tell the people, you know I think you bicker too much about things.</p>
<p>I think there is something a bit larger here than flame wars on blogs. He&#8217;s talking about a spirit of contention, anger, maybe even mimetic desires and the things that lead to real conflict. A quick pull of the use of the word contention in the book of mormon seems to indicate something a little more relevant than debates over whether caffeine is ok or not or any other debate/argument.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/07/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36987</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 21:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36987</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Matt, for that example and clarification.  My concern also is that the procedure not be delayed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Matt, for that example and clarification.  My concern also is that the procedure not be delayed.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Evans</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/07/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36986</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Evans]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 20:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/your-friday-firestorm-11/#comment-36986</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sarah, from the old Church handbook:

Stillborn Children (Children Who Die before Birth)

Temple ordinances are not performed for stillborn children, but no loss of eternal blessings or family unity is implied. The family may record the name of a stillborn child on the family group record followed by the word stillborn in parentheses.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah, from the old Church handbook:</p>
<p>Stillborn Children (Children Who Die before Birth)</p>
<p>Temple ordinances are not performed for stillborn children, but no loss of eternal blessings or family unity is implied. The family may record the name of a stillborn child on the family group record followed by the word stillborn in parentheses.</p>
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