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	<title>Comments on: St. John, the adulteress and me</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/20/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/20/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: abish</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/20/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92095</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[abish]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 22:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92095</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seth-OUCH!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seth-OUCH!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Seth R.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/20/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92094</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Seth R.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92094</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Mormon answer is of course:

It doesn&#039;t matter if some medieval monk made up the whole thing from notes he took on the back of a napkin after getting drunk on the communion wine.

Gordon B. Hinckley said it in General Conference.

That makes it scripture. ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Mormon answer is of course:</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter if some medieval monk made up the whole thing from notes he took on the back of a napkin after getting drunk on the communion wine.</p>
<p>Gordon B. Hinckley said it in General Conference.</p>
<p>That makes it scripture. ;)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: JennyW</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/20/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92093</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JennyW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Sep 2007 02:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92093</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry about the duplicate comments--when I came back on the 21st I swear the first hadn&#039;t posted yet, hence #15 ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry about the duplicate comments&#8211;when I came back on the 21st I swear the first hadn&#8217;t posted yet, hence #15 &#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: JennyW</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/20/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92092</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JennyW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2007 04:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92092</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One of my &lt;a href=&quot;http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=3608&amp;x=111&amp;y=0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;favorite talks&lt;/a&gt; used the story; I&#039;m sure the speaker knew of the textual &quot;problems,&quot; but that didn&#039;t keep him from using it beautifully.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my <a href="http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=3608&amp;x=111&amp;y=0" rel="nofollow">favorite talks</a> used the story; I&#8217;m sure the speaker knew of the textual &#8220;problems,&#8221; but that didn&#8217;t keep him from using it beautifully.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen M (Ethesis)</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/20/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92091</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephen M (Ethesis)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92091</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, yes, the best scholarship indicates that it was not part of the original Gospel of John, but also that it was a well accepted and part of the original narrative of Christ that was given a home in John.

I wouldn&#039;t let it bother you.  Much of the scriptures that we have did not start in the form they are in.  Heck, the entire Book of Mormon was heavily edited (by Mormon).  No one complains about that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, yes, the best scholarship indicates that it was not part of the original Gospel of John, but also that it was a well accepted and part of the original narrative of Christ that was given a home in John.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t let it bother you.  Much of the scriptures that we have did not start in the form they are in.  Heck, the entire Book of Mormon was heavily edited (by Mormon).  No one complains about that.</p>
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		<title>By: LDS Anarchist</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/20/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92090</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LDS Anarchist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 05:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92090</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[3- So, I should write my daily journal in the dust to emulate Jesus?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>3- So, I should write my daily journal in the dust to emulate Jesus?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/20/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92089</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 01:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92089</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Boy, I wouldn&#039;t let a little scribal quibbling deter you from using that wonderful story. If you&#039;re concerned that such questions about authenticity may create doubt as to the true character of Jesus, remember there are plenty of other occasions wherein he condemns (either explicitly or implicitly) the very same brand of hypocrisy. Also (at the risk of coming across a little preachy), remember that while the Sermon on the Mount does indeed condemn adultery and anything like unto it, it also exalts the virtues of forgiveness, compassion, witholding judgment, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boy, I wouldn&#8217;t let a little scribal quibbling deter you from using that wonderful story. If you&#8217;re concerned that such questions about authenticity may create doubt as to the true character of Jesus, remember there are plenty of other occasions wherein he condemns (either explicitly or implicitly) the very same brand of hypocrisy. Also (at the risk of coming across a little preachy), remember that while the Sermon on the Mount does indeed condemn adultery and anything like unto it, it also exalts the virtues of forgiveness, compassion, witholding judgment, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Christensen</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/20/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92088</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Christensen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 01:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92088</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One effect that the controversy about whether the story in John was originally in the gospel is to distance the readers from the importance of the story.  We being discussing editors, and the story slips away.

A very good antedote to that circumstance is the chapter on &quot;The Horrible Miracle of Apollonius of Tyana&quot; in Rene Girard&#039;s I See Satan Fall Like Lightening.  Girard describes an account of the horrible miracle, which involved Apollonions getting a crowd to stone to death an outcast beggar, and then claiming that the beggar was a demon who was responsible for the troubles of the city.  In  direct contrast, Girard says &quot;Saving the adulterous woman from being stoned, as Jesus does means that he prevents the violent contagion from getting started. Another contagion in the reverse direction us set off, however, a contagion of nonviolence. From the moment the first individual gives up stoning the adulterous woman, he becomes a model who is imitated more and more until finallu all the group, guided by Jesus, abandons is plans to stone the woman.&quot;
&quot;Our two texts are as opposed to one another as possible in spirit, and yet they resemble each other since they are examples of mimetic escalation. Their independent origin makes this resemblence very significant. The texts help us better understand the dynamic of crowds that must be defined, not primarily by violence or by nonviolence, but by imitation, by contagious imitation.&quot; (Girard, 57)

Girard continues to refer to the overwhelming  significance this story has for the Western culture, just via the presence of a simeple phrase, &quot;Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.&quot; Because of the story, we hesitate to condemn because we reflect on our own guilts; we are more inclined to be merciful.

Reading Girard convinced me that even if the story was not originally in the text (something of which I am not convinced), it unquestionably belongs there. It&#039;s not a trivial story, but one of profound significance.

Kevin Christensen
Bethel Park, PA]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One effect that the controversy about whether the story in John was originally in the gospel is to distance the readers from the importance of the story.  We being discussing editors, and the story slips away.</p>
<p>A very good antedote to that circumstance is the chapter on &#8220;The Horrible Miracle of Apollonius of Tyana&#8221; in Rene Girard&#8217;s I See Satan Fall Like Lightening.  Girard describes an account of the horrible miracle, which involved Apollonions getting a crowd to stone to death an outcast beggar, and then claiming that the beggar was a demon who was responsible for the troubles of the city.  In  direct contrast, Girard says &#8220;Saving the adulterous woman from being stoned, as Jesus does means that he prevents the violent contagion from getting started. Another contagion in the reverse direction us set off, however, a contagion of nonviolence. From the moment the first individual gives up stoning the adulterous woman, he becomes a model who is imitated more and more until finallu all the group, guided by Jesus, abandons is plans to stone the woman.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Our two texts are as opposed to one another as possible in spirit, and yet they resemble each other since they are examples of mimetic escalation. Their independent origin makes this resemblence very significant. The texts help us better understand the dynamic of crowds that must be defined, not primarily by violence or by nonviolence, but by imitation, by contagious imitation.&#8221; (Girard, 57)</p>
<p>Girard continues to refer to the overwhelming  significance this story has for the Western culture, just via the presence of a simeple phrase, &#8220;Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.&#8221; Because of the story, we hesitate to condemn because we reflect on our own guilts; we are more inclined to be merciful.</p>
<p>Reading Girard convinced me that even if the story was not originally in the text (something of which I am not convinced), it unquestionably belongs there. It&#8217;s not a trivial story, but one of profound significance.</p>
<p>Kevin Christensen<br />
Bethel Park, PA</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/20/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92087</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 01:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92087</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Who cares about accuracy when we have Article of Faith #8?  *grin*]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who cares about accuracy when we have Article of Faith #8?  *grin*</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: a random John</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/20/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92086</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[a random John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/st-john-the-adulteress-and-me/#comment-92086</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wish my ward assigned topics for talks that were half as interesting as that.  Instead we recycle conference talks.

My question is: is this the scripture that has best helped you understand Christ?  If so then I don&#039;t really see the problem.  If your answer were Song of Solomon then maybe I&#039;d have a different answer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish my ward assigned topics for talks that were half as interesting as that.  Instead we recycle conference talks.</p>
<p>My question is: is this the scripture that has best helped you understand Christ?  If so then I don&#8217;t really see the problem.  If your answer were Song of Solomon then maybe I&#8217;d have a different answer.</p>
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