Comments on: Partisan Politics, Mormons, and the First Law of Holes

By: the reluctant nihilist

the reluctant nihilist — Wed, 17 Oct 2007 21:37:02 +0000

it never ceases to amaze me that intelligent people (whatever religious affiliation) can think that HOW they believe politically can influence anything going on in the world.

Yes, that is cynical–

but we rant, and we discuss, and we argue, and does anything change?

I see this in LDS partisans all the time, whatever their beliefs. While not being partisan myself, at least Democrats have the moxie to challenge the “all good Mormons are Republicans” assumption.

I see Democrats and Republicans as opposing high school athletic teams.

What happens in the game won’t matter much in 20 years or less–

REAL LIFE is happening outside of those parties–

decisions are being made outside the parties, and the joke is on those who think it matters–

AND . . . while we need to have a place to express our beliefs, WHO believes “all Republican” or “all Democrat”–

I hear “pro-life Democrat” or “pro-choice Republican”, and I shake my head at the absurdity of it all–

I’m glad there is a place to discuss it; I really appreciate the comments here–

but do any of you really believe that it matters?

I think politics are a game to keep us from thinking about what is really going on.

If we thought too hard about it . . . we couldn’t cope–

By: Mormon Politics Time Out? | Main Street Plaza

Mormon Politics Time Out? | Main Street Plaza — Wed, 17 Oct 2007 16:08:38 +0000

[...] Mark Brown would probably like George Orwell’s aphorism: “To see what is in front of our nose, requires a constant struggle.” In the wake of Harry Reid’s speech at BYU, ‘naclers have been struggling with the role of politics in our religion. [...]

By: Adam Greenwood

Adam Greenwood — Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:48:21 +0000

I agree wholeheartedly with #42, including the part about getting the number wrong.

By: Mingling Faith and Politics « Andrew’s Miracle Drug

Mingling Faith and Politics « Andrew’s Miracle Drug — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:51:32 +0000

[...] Brown, over at By Common Consent, seems to have gone through a similar range of feelings I did. Thanks to Brown for finding this gem [...]

By: Mark B.

Mark B. — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:46:08 +0000

Ray’s and others’ comments remind me why I still live and attend church in Brooklyn. Unlike the churches described in somebody’s recent post, we don’t have grounds with ball fields and volleyball courts around our buildings and we don’t have basketball courts or cultural halls or stages or cars to drive there in or parking lots to park the cars in, and the kitchens are about the size of my shower at home.

But, nobody ever talks about politics in the branches in our district. Nobody ever suggests that his or her politics are inspired or required by God or that someone whose politics are different are inconsistent with the truth that God has revealed.

And, we don’t even sing patriotic songs in our district. We’re with John Taylor on that one: “The Kingdom of God or Nothing!” Besides, what would we sing? “Mexicanos, al grito de guerra”? or “Quisqueyanos valientes” or maybe “Forged From the Love of Liberty”? and then “Jamaica, Land We Love”. (I suspect the Jamaica Ward next door in Queens could sing this last one.)

By: Ray

Ray — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:28:18 +0000

There is a brother in our ward who can’t understand how any good Mormon could be a Democrat – and, therefore, can’t understand how one of the former councilors in our bishopric could be a Democrat, since he obviously is a wonderful Mormon. He also can’t understand how inconsistent his paradigm is – which is the point, imo, about keeping partisan politics out of discussions at Church.

One the other hand, there are at least two very vocal Democrats in our ward who constantly interject partisan comments into class discussions. In almost all cases, I just smile and nod and “Hmmm” my way around it – except for those times when a statement is made as if it was Church doctrine when it isn’t. In those cases, my position dictates I address it openly – and, hopefully, with the Spirit. Usually, that means a simple, “I can understand what Bro. X is saying, but this is an area where each member has his or her own opinion – and there isn’t any specific Church doctrine.”

Political issues overlap naturally, and I have no problem with that; partisanship doesn’t have to overlap.

By: Mark IV

Mark IV — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:12:28 +0000

Adam Greenwood,

your, comment # 41 is incoherent. Did you mean to reference comment # 26, rather than # 36?

By: Adam Greenwood

Adam Greenwood — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:07:50 +0000

Mark IV,
I agree wholeheartedly with #36, including the part about me being the last person one would expect to recognize incoherence.

By: Steve Evans

Steve Evans — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 19:50:37 +0000

Frank, my hypocrisy is plain for all to see.

By: Frank McIntyre

Frank McIntyre — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 19:48:17 +0000

Also, I should add that I really dislike raw politics in Church. I don’t particularly care whether it is right or left wing (and I’ve gotten to see my share of both) and I much prefer to leave it out. Not that I have any problem with the Church asking us to support moral issues in our votes, I just don’t like the (thankfully rare) random partisanship of members.

I feel that way with the understanding that there are other places where we can talk about ideas that are interesting and relevant to living our faith, but not quite right in Sunday School.