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	<title>Comments on: Happy Columbus Day</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/16/happy-columbus-day/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/16/happy-columbus-day/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Sam MB</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/16/happy-columbus-day/#comment-85000</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sam MB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 12:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/happy-columbus-day/#comment-85000</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Justin, I think Cowdery believed that Columbus was inspired, as was common for both Mormons and non-Mormon whites.  Simultaneously he was repulsed by the horrid treatment of natives.  I think he believed you could have one without the other, perhaps naively.

In a similar vein, Phelps and others lauded the concentration of the Indians on the western frontier as the &quot;gathering of Israel&quot; even while they decried white terrorism against the Indians.

They seemed to have a selective mode of viewing the interactions that allowed them to segment white crimes from what they thought of as the hand of God.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justin, I think Cowdery believed that Columbus was inspired, as was common for both Mormons and non-Mormon whites.  Simultaneously he was repulsed by the horrid treatment of natives.  I think he believed you could have one without the other, perhaps naively.</p>
<p>In a similar vein, Phelps and others lauded the concentration of the Indians on the western frontier as the &#8220;gathering of Israel&#8221; even while they decried white terrorism against the Indians.</p>
<p>They seemed to have a selective mode of viewing the interactions that allowed them to segment white crimes from what they thought of as the hand of God.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: No one in Particular</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/16/happy-columbus-day/#comment-84999</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[No one in Particular]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 06:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/happy-columbus-day/#comment-84999</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[18. Adam: I don&#039;t think it&#039;s self-loathing, and I&#039;d bet my bottom dollar that they don&#039;t think of themselves as &#039;puros indios.&#039; The prevailing identity of Latin America (not counting a few very indigenous zones still hanging around) is that of the mestizo. They aren&#039;t too keen on Europe the way a lot of white folks from the US might not be too keen on the slavery of Confederate South. I don&#039;t have to be black to feel like it was an affront. If you wanted to be kind, you could call it insightful social commentary.

PS If you want more Church-relevance to this post, feel free to substitute my national example with something in church history that you don&#039;t feel particularly proud of.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>18. Adam: I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s self-loathing, and I&#8217;d bet my bottom dollar that they don&#8217;t think of themselves as &#8216;puros indios.&#8217; The prevailing identity of Latin America (not counting a few very indigenous zones still hanging around) is that of the mestizo. They aren&#8217;t too keen on Europe the way a lot of white folks from the US might not be too keen on the slavery of Confederate South. I don&#8217;t have to be black to feel like it was an affront. If you wanted to be kind, you could call it insightful social commentary.</p>
<p>PS If you want more Church-relevance to this post, feel free to substitute my national example with something in church history that you don&#8217;t feel particularly proud of.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/16/happy-columbus-day/#comment-84998</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 03:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/happy-columbus-day/#comment-84998</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Justin, I wonder if Cowdery ever read the Book of Mormon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justin, I wonder if Cowdery ever read the Book of Mormon.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/16/happy-columbus-day/#comment-84997</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 03:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/happy-columbus-day/#comment-84997</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cowdery seemed to harbor the belief that Columbus was, in some respects, inspired by God.

&quot;[C]ertain it is, that a peculiar providence was manifest from the first discovery of this continent, to the period when this nation became independent. This can be demonstrated from facts, and clearly shown to the mind susceptible of light, and willing to admit an overruling Hand in every act of nations to bring about great and important events in the future happiness of man.

Why, it might be asked, was not this continent discovered to eastern nations previous to the year 1492? great boast is made of the arts and learning of the Egyptians, of the wisdom and science of the Greeks and Romans, and to this day a continual strife is made to copy in the train of these nations, and equal their learning and refinement. The Egyptians could astonish the universe for centuries with their knowledge of embalming their dead, of concealing their arts in mystical characters of hieroglyphics, and cause creation to wonder at their unparalleled power in piling rocks into huge masses as monuments of their industery [industry] and extravigance [extravagance], and yet their knowledge of the extent of this globe be limited to a little narrow space, on which they were born, figured so wonderfully, and at last laid their bones with those of their fathers upon the same.

Greece could rise by transmitting to her shores the instructions she received from Egypt as a mother, and cause generations to gaze on her works of art and sculpture, men of intelligence to strive to equal her in wisdom and march in her train of philosophy; leave ruined cities and decayed temples as specimens of her vain ambition, for men of after years to admire with astonishment, and yet fall to the ground, after speculating upon the system of creation sufficiently to draw the world in her course, and yet her knowledge be as limited as the former.

Rome could rise on the ruins of Greece, exist century after century filled with riches and luxury, render herself famous for her power, conquer the east with her arms, and transmit her laws to after nations, with a great share of her profligacy, and sink at last into ruin without being able to soar over the vast deep and discover another world to poison with her wickedness-That was left for after ages, and the honor to be given to a future generation, though Italy may boast of raising the favored city which gave birth to the man who, by the immediate inspiration of heaven, conceived the idea of the existence of another earth. Fourteen hundred and ninety two years from the birth of the Saviour [Savior], one thousand and sixteen from the fall of the Roman Empire in the west, and thirty nine from its extinction in the east, had collapsed, before the nations of the eastern continent were favored with this knowledge. One wave might have overwhelmed his little bark and consigned this adventurer to the deep; and without a spirit equal to the first, another man might not have been found to hazard his all upon this dangerous experiment, and so the plan remain forever without being undertaken again-but the time had arrived, and wisdom in the Author of the world made it expedient for this treasure to be disclosed! Why not Egypt have this honor? or why not Greece study out by her philosophy the power of the great BALANCE, and transmit to mankind this important blessing? Why not Rome, proud mistress of the eastern world, unfold the secret which was to make so many millions a resting place and a covert from the tempest? The short answer is, the time had not arrived, and with all their intelligence these nations were limited to territory, and though their genius were fertile in innumerable arts, yet they never touched upon the great and important thought of leading their children into an almost boundless region, where nature, with her luxuriant mantle had thrown around the blessings of the earth in the fullest abundance!&quot;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://centerplace.org/history/ems/v2n22.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Reflections for the Fourth of July 1834&quot;&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cowdery seemed to harbor the belief that Columbus was, in some respects, inspired by God.</p>
<p>&#8220;[C]ertain it is, that a peculiar providence was manifest from the first discovery of this continent, to the period when this nation became independent. This can be demonstrated from facts, and clearly shown to the mind susceptible of light, and willing to admit an overruling Hand in every act of nations to bring about great and important events in the future happiness of man.</p>
<p>Why, it might be asked, was not this continent discovered to eastern nations previous to the year 1492? great boast is made of the arts and learning of the Egyptians, of the wisdom and science of the Greeks and Romans, and to this day a continual strife is made to copy in the train of these nations, and equal their learning and refinement. The Egyptians could astonish the universe for centuries with their knowledge of embalming their dead, of concealing their arts in mystical characters of hieroglyphics, and cause creation to wonder at their unparalleled power in piling rocks into huge masses as monuments of their industery [industry] and extravigance [extravagance], and yet their knowledge of the extent of this globe be limited to a little narrow space, on which they were born, figured so wonderfully, and at last laid their bones with those of their fathers upon the same.</p>
<p>Greece could rise by transmitting to her shores the instructions she received from Egypt as a mother, and cause generations to gaze on her works of art and sculpture, men of intelligence to strive to equal her in wisdom and march in her train of philosophy; leave ruined cities and decayed temples as specimens of her vain ambition, for men of after years to admire with astonishment, and yet fall to the ground, after speculating upon the system of creation sufficiently to draw the world in her course, and yet her knowledge be as limited as the former.</p>
<p>Rome could rise on the ruins of Greece, exist century after century filled with riches and luxury, render herself famous for her power, conquer the east with her arms, and transmit her laws to after nations, with a great share of her profligacy, and sink at last into ruin without being able to soar over the vast deep and discover another world to poison with her wickedness-That was left for after ages, and the honor to be given to a future generation, though Italy may boast of raising the favored city which gave birth to the man who, by the immediate inspiration of heaven, conceived the idea of the existence of another earth. Fourteen hundred and ninety two years from the birth of the Saviour [Savior], one thousand and sixteen from the fall of the Roman Empire in the west, and thirty nine from its extinction in the east, had collapsed, before the nations of the eastern continent were favored with this knowledge. One wave might have overwhelmed his little bark and consigned this adventurer to the deep; and without a spirit equal to the first, another man might not have been found to hazard his all upon this dangerous experiment, and so the plan remain forever without being undertaken again-but the time had arrived, and wisdom in the Author of the world made it expedient for this treasure to be disclosed! Why not Egypt have this honor? or why not Greece study out by her philosophy the power of the great BALANCE, and transmit to mankind this important blessing? Why not Rome, proud mistress of the eastern world, unfold the secret which was to make so many millions a resting place and a covert from the tempest? The short answer is, the time had not arrived, and with all their intelligence these nations were limited to territory, and though their genius were fertile in innumerable arts, yet they never touched upon the great and important thought of leading their children into an almost boundless region, where nature, with her luxuriant mantle had thrown around the blessings of the earth in the fullest abundance!&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://centerplace.org/history/ems/v2n22.htm" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Reflections for the Fourth of July 1834&#8243;</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Perdóname</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/16/happy-columbus-day/#comment-84996</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Perdóname]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 02:16:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/happy-columbus-day/#comment-84996</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(#18:) &lt;em&gt;That’s pretty self-loathing.&lt;/em&gt;

Adam, do you mean to suggest that an expression of regret for a past act(such as genocide) is wrong or otherwise unadvisable?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(#18:) <em>That’s pretty self-loathing.</em></p>
<p>Adam, do you mean to suggest that an expression of regret for a past act(such as genocide) is wrong or otherwise unadvisable?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kris</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/16/happy-columbus-day/#comment-84995</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 02:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/happy-columbus-day/#comment-84995</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey, thanks for the music! Nice rhythm (words were too fast for me to understand, so it&#039;s nice to see they lyrics).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, thanks for the music! Nice rhythm (words were too fast for me to understand, so it&#8217;s nice to see they lyrics).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stirling</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/16/happy-columbus-day/#comment-84994</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stirling]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/happy-columbus-day/#comment-84994</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oops. Alluded.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops. Alluded.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Stirling</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/16/happy-columbus-day/#comment-84993</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stirling]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/happy-columbus-day/#comment-84993</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As aluded to in the previous post, for those interested, you can hear a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/snippet-of-v-centenario/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;snippet of the song here&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As aluded to in the previous post, for those interested, you can hear a <a href="http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/snippet-of-v-centenario/" rel="nofollow">snippet of the song here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: By Common Consent &#187; Snippet of &#8220;V Centenario&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/16/happy-columbus-day/#comment-84992</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[By Common Consent &#187; Snippet of &#8220;V Centenario&#8221;]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/happy-columbus-day/#comment-84992</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] of the Los Fabulosos Cadillacs song &#8220;V Centenario&#8221; for comments 11-17 on SMB&#8217;s Happy Columbus blog. I saved it at a fairly low quality (48 b) so it wouldn&#8217;t use too much bandwidth. So, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of the Los Fabulosos Cadillacs song &#8220;V Centenario&#8221; for comments 11-17 on SMB&#8217;s Happy Columbus blog. I saved it at a fairly low quality (48 b) so it wouldn&#8217;t use too much bandwidth. So, [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Adam Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/16/happy-columbus-day/#comment-84991</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam Greenwood]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/happy-columbus-day/#comment-84991</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s pretty self-loathing.  Or, if they think of themselves as puros indios, pretty loathing of their countrymen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s pretty self-loathing.  Or, if they think of themselves as puros indios, pretty loathing of their countrymen.</p>
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