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	<title>Comments on: Your Friday Firestorm #17</title>
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	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/19/your-friday-firestorm-17/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/19/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37684</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 16:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37684</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Having grown up with a parent whom, in my memory, I never once saw react in anger, and knowing the amazing results firsthand, I feel very strongly about this topic.  I wrote #33 trying hard to focus on what seemed to me to be the most obvious aspect - not letting anger turn to action and become wrath.  However, greenfrog&#039;s and Kevin&#039;s and Norbert&#039;s comments (especially) spurred me to add the following.

When I read the Sermon on the Mount - the blueprint we have for becoming perfect (whole and complete), I have a very hard time defending anger - especially when it turns to wrath, but even before then.  I just don&#039;t see it anywhere in those chapters.  I think anger is one of the most basic natural instincts, and I believe that eliminating that natural tendency is one of the most fundamental aspects of learning to forgive truly and completely.  It&#039;s impossible to forgive while anger exists, and anger impedes understanding and repentance and charity and compassion and patience and perhaps any other virtue it is possible to list.

I can understand the intellectual argument that posits anger as a first-level motivator, but not getting angry and not &quot;letting the sun go down on wrath&quot; is exactly what I am trying to learn.  Tt is one of my goals to bite my tongue and take deep breaths and let the initial emotion pass before I react to any provocation - to never make a decision or say a word or take an action in the grip of anger - and, if possible, learn to dismiss anger entirely - to learn to be motivated by love instead - to act out of love for the attacked instead of anger toward the attacker.

My sixth child has taught me that I still have more to accomplish in this area than I thought prior to the last year - and Pres. Hinckley&#039;s talk in the GC Priesthood Session was the motivator to change how I react to her temper tantrums.  It is amazing the difference I have observed in the last two weeks - as I have focused consciously on simply not letting myself get angry with her - to remain calm and patient in the midst of her storms.  Truly, it is amazing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having grown up with a parent whom, in my memory, I never once saw react in anger, and knowing the amazing results firsthand, I feel very strongly about this topic.  I wrote #33 trying hard to focus on what seemed to me to be the most obvious aspect &#8211; not letting anger turn to action and become wrath.  However, greenfrog&#8217;s and Kevin&#8217;s and Norbert&#8217;s comments (especially) spurred me to add the following.</p>
<p>When I read the Sermon on the Mount &#8211; the blueprint we have for becoming perfect (whole and complete), I have a very hard time defending anger &#8211; especially when it turns to wrath, but even before then.  I just don&#8217;t see it anywhere in those chapters.  I think anger is one of the most basic natural instincts, and I believe that eliminating that natural tendency is one of the most fundamental aspects of learning to forgive truly and completely.  It&#8217;s impossible to forgive while anger exists, and anger impedes understanding and repentance and charity and compassion and patience and perhaps any other virtue it is possible to list.</p>
<p>I can understand the intellectual argument that posits anger as a first-level motivator, but not getting angry and not &#8220;letting the sun go down on wrath&#8221; is exactly what I am trying to learn.  Tt is one of my goals to bite my tongue and take deep breaths and let the initial emotion pass before I react to any provocation &#8211; to never make a decision or say a word or take an action in the grip of anger &#8211; and, if possible, learn to dismiss anger entirely &#8211; to learn to be motivated by love instead &#8211; to act out of love for the attacked instead of anger toward the attacker.</p>
<p>My sixth child has taught me that I still have more to accomplish in this area than I thought prior to the last year &#8211; and Pres. Hinckley&#8217;s talk in the GC Priesthood Session was the motivator to change how I react to her temper tantrums.  It is amazing the difference I have observed in the last two weeks &#8211; as I have focused consciously on simply not letting myself get angry with her &#8211; to remain calm and patient in the midst of her storms.  Truly, it is amazing.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark IV</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/19/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37694</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark IV]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 13:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37694</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When I think about anger in an abstract and detatched manner, I can agree that it has value.  But when I review my own experience, I cannot think of a time when I have been angry when I was not ashamed later, and filled with regret.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I think about anger in an abstract and detatched manner, I can agree that it has value.  But when I review my own experience, I cannot think of a time when I have been angry when I was not ashamed later, and filled with regret.</p>
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		<title>By: Norbert</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/19/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37693</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Norbert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 07:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37693</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Using Gandhi as an example of righteous anger is hilarious. He was well known for his short temper and his tendency to belittle and attack others personally. I will agree that the idea of nonviolence -- not actually how it was done by Gandhi but the general principle -- is a good model for us.

I know what anger is for me -- loss of control, holding on to an incident and nursing it, justification of blaming and judging --  and I know it is a sin. It is damn hard to control our emotions, but it&#039;s what is required of us ... which is probably why we all talk about the word of wisdom and paying tithing so much and avoiding anger and being patient not so much.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Using Gandhi as an example of righteous anger is hilarious. He was well known for his short temper and his tendency to belittle and attack others personally. I will agree that the idea of nonviolence &#8212; not actually how it was done by Gandhi but the general principle &#8212; is a good model for us.</p>
<p>I know what anger is for me &#8212; loss of control, holding on to an incident and nursing it, justification of blaming and judging &#8212;  and I know it is a sin. It is damn hard to control our emotions, but it&#8217;s what is required of us &#8230; which is probably why we all talk about the word of wisdom and paying tithing so much and avoiding anger and being patient not so much.</p>
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		<title>By: Tatiana</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/19/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37692</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tatiana]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 04:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37692</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In abusive situations, it often takes the abused person getting angry before they can break out of the cycle of abusive relationships.  After anger comes acceptance and forgiveness, but anger seems to be nearly essential (or essential for some people) in order to progress out of relationships in which they are chronically abused.  In that case it&#039;s very useful.

When Gandhi got thrown off the train it made him angry.  I think he turned that anger into something good.  What if he never got angry, though?  What if he was that perfect a person?  Would the British still rule India in that case?

I think anger is useful, and it also enhances survival chances in many situations.  I don&#039;t think it&#039;s always a sin.  Venting it freely on whomever is around when the feeling strikes is definitely a sin.  Feeling it, and using its energy toward a positive end is not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In abusive situations, it often takes the abused person getting angry before they can break out of the cycle of abusive relationships.  After anger comes acceptance and forgiveness, but anger seems to be nearly essential (or essential for some people) in order to progress out of relationships in which they are chronically abused.  In that case it&#8217;s very useful.</p>
<p>When Gandhi got thrown off the train it made him angry.  I think he turned that anger into something good.  What if he never got angry, though?  What if he was that perfect a person?  Would the British still rule India in that case?</p>
<p>I think anger is useful, and it also enhances survival chances in many situations.  I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s always a sin.  Venting it freely on whomever is around when the feeling strikes is definitely a sin.  Feeling it, and using its energy toward a positive end is not.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/19/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37691</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 04:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37691</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Terry, I tried to be subtle, but I now simply will echo Eric.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terry, I tried to be subtle, but I now simply will echo Eric.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Russell</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/19/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37690</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric Russell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 03:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37690</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Terry, I&#039;m not a soldier. But somehow I think you know that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terry, I&#8217;m not a soldier. But somehow I think you know that.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/19/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37689</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 03:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37689</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not my money, but I don&#039;t see it - in the quoted verses or the chapter as a whole.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not my money, but I don&#8217;t see it &#8211; in the quoted verses or the chapter as a whole.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry Warner</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/19/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37688</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Terry Warner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 03:24:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37688</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Eric, here&#039;s a good scenario for you to think about.

Numbers 24:22 &#039;And God&#039;s anger was kindled because he went:...&#039;

24:27 &#039;And when the ass saw the angel of the Lord, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam&#039;s anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff.&#039;

24:29: &#039;And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.&#039;

Here we see both the anger of God, and the anger of Balaam in which righteous indignation is practiced.

Read the chapter and you&#039;ll see what I mean.
Now pay up, soldier.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric, here&#8217;s a good scenario for you to think about.</p>
<p>Numbers 24:22 &#8216;And God&#8217;s anger was kindled because he went:&#8230;&#8217;</p>
<p>24:27 &#8216;And when the ass saw the angel of the Lord, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam&#8217;s anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff.&#8217;</p>
<p>24:29: &#8216;And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.&#8217;</p>
<p>Here we see both the anger of God, and the anger of Balaam in which righteous indignation is practiced.</p>
<p>Read the chapter and you&#8217;ll see what I mean.<br />
Now pay up, soldier.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Barney</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/19/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37687</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Barney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 01:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37687</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[KJV Mt. 5:22 reads &quot;Whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.&quot; The BoM and JST parallels both omit the qualification &quot;without a cause.&quot;  These three words represent a single Greek adverb, eike, which almost certainly was not a part of the original text, but was an addition by scribes who felt the original saying, which did not allow anger for any reason, was too strict.

Just as the original JST quotation in this thread appears to be an absolute proscription against anger, so too in this case Joseph in his inspired translation projects went against the softening corruption of the scribes back towards the original, harder saying.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KJV Mt. 5:22 reads &#8220;Whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.&#8221; The BoM and JST parallels both omit the qualification &#8220;without a cause.&#8221;  These three words represent a single Greek adverb, eike, which almost certainly was not a part of the original text, but was an addition by scribes who felt the original saying, which did not allow anger for any reason, was too strict.</p>
<p>Just as the original JST quotation in this thread appears to be an absolute proscription against anger, so too in this case Joseph in his inspired translation projects went against the softening corruption of the scribes back towards the original, harder saying.</p>
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		<title>By: timshel</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/19/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37686</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[timshel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 01:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/your-friday-firestorm-17/#comment-37686</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Least I be misunderstood.  I agree that most humans do not have the strength, rightousness or capacity for rightous anger.  I know that I do not.  I believe it is possible (in Moroni&#039;s case, for example).  But most of us are simply unable to channel such a dangerous emotion in a positive direction.  D. Tedder and Eric, we all agree.  I should have put a :-) at the end of #40.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Least I be misunderstood.  I agree that most humans do not have the strength, rightousness or capacity for rightous anger.  I know that I do not.  I believe it is possible (in Moroni&#8217;s case, for example).  But most of us are simply unable to channel such a dangerous emotion in a positive direction.  D. Tedder and Eric, we all agree.  I should have put a :-) at the end of #40.</p>
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