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	<title>Comments on: Tribal justice at Mountain Meadows</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/09/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/09/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: foxjones</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/09/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147687</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[foxjones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147687</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Now if we could get BYU scholars to debate like you guys...hmm...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now if we could get BYU scholars to debate like you guys&#8230;hmm&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Levi Peterson</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/09/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147686</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Levi Peterson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 01:58:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147686</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ivan:

Thanks for calling the Turner review to my attention. It confirms my contention that Bagley has emerged as the history of the massacre of choice for non-Mormon readers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ivan:</p>
<p>Thanks for calling the Turner review to my attention. It confirms my contention that Bagley has emerged as the history of the massacre of choice for non-Mormon readers.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivan Wolfe</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/09/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147685</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ivan Wolfe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 20:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147685</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not that anybody&#039;s paying attention to this thread anymore, but the &lt;em&gt;American Religous History &lt;/em&gt;Blog just &lt;a href=&quot;http://americanreligioushistory.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/mountain-meadows-massacre/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;linked to this thread here&lt;/a&gt;:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://americanreligioushistory.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/mountain-meadows-massacre/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://americanreligioushistory.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/mountain-meadows-massacre/&lt;/a&gt;

The context was in a discussion of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/2007/005/7.35.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this article ( http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/2007/005/7.35.html )&lt;/a&gt;:

at Christianity today, which has the following to say:
&lt;i&gt;Bagley explains that on September 1—ten days before the massacre—Young &quot;gave them [the Paiutes] all the cattle that had gone to Cal on the south rout … they [the Americans] have come to fight us &amp; you for when they kill us they will kill you.&quot; &quot;If any court in the American West (excepting, of course, one of Utah&#039;s probate courts) had seen the evidence it contains,&quot; writes Bagley of Huntington&#039;s journal, &quot;the only debate among the jurors would have been when, where, and how high to hang Brigham Young.&quot;

Only a jury packed with anti-Mormons would have hung Brigham Young as an &quot;accessory to murder&quot; on the evidence available to Bagley. The distance between Young &quot;giving&quot; the Paiutes the cattle on the southern route and ordering his own men to attack the Fancher train is as wide as the distance between Salt Lake and Mountain Meadows, and the commonsensical reading of Young&#039;s letter to Haight remains exculpatory. &lt;/i&gt;

FWIW.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not that anybody&#8217;s paying attention to this thread anymore, but the <em>American Religous History </em>Blog just <a href="http://americanreligioushistory.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/mountain-meadows-massacre/" rel="nofollow">linked to this thread here</a>:<br />
<a href="http://americanreligioushistory.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/mountain-meadows-massacre/" rel="nofollow">http://americanreligioushistory.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/mountain-meadows-massacre/</a></p>
<p>The context was in a discussion of <a href="http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/2007/005/7.35.html" rel="nofollow">this article ( </a><a href="http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/2007/005/7.35.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/2007/005/7.35.html</a> ):</p>
<p>at Christianity today, which has the following to say:<br />
<i>Bagley explains that on September 1—ten days before the massacre—Young &#8220;gave them [the Paiutes] all the cattle that had gone to Cal on the south rout … they [the Americans] have come to fight us &amp; you for when they kill us they will kill you.&#8221; &#8220;If any court in the American West (excepting, of course, one of Utah&#8217;s probate courts) had seen the evidence it contains,&#8221; writes Bagley of Huntington&#8217;s journal, &#8220;the only debate among the jurors would have been when, where, and how high to hang Brigham Young.&#8221;</p>
<p>Only a jury packed with anti-Mormons would have hung Brigham Young as an &#8220;accessory to murder&#8221; on the evidence available to Bagley. The distance between Young &#8220;giving&#8221; the Paiutes the cattle on the southern route and ordering his own men to attack the Fancher train is as wide as the distance between Salt Lake and Mountain Meadows, and the commonsensical reading of Young&#8217;s letter to Haight remains exculpatory. </i></p>
<p>FWIW.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: truebluethru'n'thru</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/09/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147684</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[truebluethru'n'thru]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 00:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147684</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chipper up, Not a cool kid. In &quot;Rascal by Nature, A Christian by Yearning,&quot; L. Peterson occasionally shows Charlie Brownish self-doubt too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chipper up, Not a cool kid. In &#8220;Rascal by Nature, A Christian by Yearning,&#8221; L. Peterson occasionally shows Charlie Brownish self-doubt too.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Not a cool kid</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/09/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147683</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Not a cool kid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 00:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147683</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, I&#039;m a coward.  But L. Peterson and W. Bagley are at the the top of the clique.  They are certifiably cool.

In my case, not being part of the clique, there would be serious social and professional consequences if I used my real name.

So, I&#039;m a filthy coward. Doesn&#039;t mean I&#039;m wrong. (This also should not be construed as a criticism of the clique.  I think cliques are fine as well as a natural and useful part of the social order).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I&#8217;m a coward.  But L. Peterson and W. Bagley are at the the top of the clique.  They are certifiably cool.</p>
<p>In my case, not being part of the clique, there would be serious social and professional consequences if I used my real name.</p>
<p>So, I&#8217;m a filthy coward. Doesn&#8217;t mean I&#8217;m wrong. (This also should not be construed as a criticism of the clique.  I think cliques are fine as well as a natural and useful part of the social order).</p>
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		<title>By: Anon.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/09/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147682</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anon.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 21:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147682</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[39, you missed another relative strength both Will and Levi have: they attach their name to their blog comments.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>39, you missed another relative strength both Will and Levi have: they attach their name to their blog comments.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Not a cool kid</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/09/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147681</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Not a cool kid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Will is an amazing writer and excellent researcher.  He has two amazing strengths: the ability to find new sources, and the ability to dish out criticism.

Unfortunately, that is tempered by his two greatest weaknesses:  His inability to accurately interpret new sources, and his inability to take criticism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will is an amazing writer and excellent researcher.  He has two amazing strengths: the ability to find new sources, and the ability to dish out criticism.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, that is tempered by his two greatest weaknesses:  His inability to accurately interpret new sources, and his inability to take criticism.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/09/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147680</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 18:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147680</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Will, as one who appeared to be opposed to what you said on another site, I echo Stirling.  I deeply appreciate what you have contributed.

I have to add, however, that I don&#039;t read much in the way of &quot;personal assassination in the replies&quot; here on this thread.  Granted, #29 is over the top, and there are three other comments that express reservations about a few aspects of your work, but overall the tone has not been one of &quot;vitriol&quot; here.  May I humbly suggest that your view of these replies is influenced by the beatings you undeservedly take elsewhere - and one comment (#29) that is not representative of the rest of us?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will, as one who appeared to be opposed to what you said on another site, I echo Stirling.  I deeply appreciate what you have contributed.</p>
<p>I have to add, however, that I don&#8217;t read much in the way of &#8220;personal assassination in the replies&#8221; here on this thread.  Granted, #29 is over the top, and there are three other comments that express reservations about a few aspects of your work, but overall the tone has not been one of &#8220;vitriol&#8221; here.  May I humbly suggest that your view of these replies is influenced by the beatings you undeservedly take elsewhere &#8211; and one comment (#29) that is not representative of the rest of us?</p>
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		<title>By: Stirling</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/09/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147679</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stirling]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 18:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147679</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Will,
As I hope Levi has made clear, there are some (I assume many) here who greatly value your book.

As for me and my house, we read sections of it in family home evening as part of our research into the religious and social context surrounding the relatively unknown extermination/massacre of the Utah Lake Utes in February, 1850.

Thanks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will,<br />
As I hope Levi has made clear, there are some (I assume many) here who greatly value your book.</p>
<p>As for me and my house, we read sections of it in family home evening as part of our research into the religious and social context surrounding the relatively unknown extermination/massacre of the Utah Lake Utes in February, 1850.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Levi Peterson</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/09/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147678</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Levi Peterson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/tribal-justice-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-147678</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Will, I admire your book greatly. As I said, I think it will become the classic treatment of the massacre for non-Mormon readers.

It is true that I believe you lack a basic sympathy for the perpetrators of the massacre that Juanita had in abundance. I believe that because of the body language of your book--the arrangement of chapters and sections, the connotations of the words you choose, and your choice of plausibilities (as distinct from proven fact).

I don&#039;t see this as a fault on your part. Your book is truly an achievement. And I appreciate your cheerful personality and your generosity in sharing historical sources. You are a major figure in the historiography of Mormonism.

Levi]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will, I admire your book greatly. As I said, I think it will become the classic treatment of the massacre for non-Mormon readers.</p>
<p>It is true that I believe you lack a basic sympathy for the perpetrators of the massacre that Juanita had in abundance. I believe that because of the body language of your book&#8211;the arrangement of chapters and sections, the connotations of the words you choose, and your choice of plausibilities (as distinct from proven fact).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see this as a fault on your part. Your book is truly an achievement. And I appreciate your cheerful personality and your generosity in sharing historical sources. You are a major figure in the historiography of Mormonism.</p>
<p>Levi</p>
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