Comments on: The Problem of Mormon Christianity http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/26/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/ A Mormon Blog Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:52:19 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Bob http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/26/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102360 Bob Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:57:27 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102360 #104: And Talmage. Funny, I use to talk hours with my Evangelic friend who's statement was: " Believe in Christ and you are saved." (Me)"You mean all this 'stuff' Mormons add does not "unsave" me/them?'...Nope. #104: And Talmage. Funny, I use to talk hours with my Evangelic friend who’s statement was: ” Believe in Christ and you are saved.” (Me)”You mean all this ’stuff’ Mormons add does not “unsave” me/them?’…Nope.

]]> By: BHodges http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/26/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102358 BHodges Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:36:18 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102358 I don't believe he'd deny them Christianity. (Parenthetically, JS wasn't the originator of the AoF, they were first written by Orson Pratt and later reworked by the prophet.) I don’t believe he’d deny them Christianity.

(Parenthetically, JS wasn’t the originator of the AoF, they were first written by Orson Pratt and later reworked by the prophet.)

]]> By: Bob http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/26/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102356 Bob Wed, 28 Nov 2007 02:47:48 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102356 #102: If I have been unclear, I am sorry for that. I have always tried to be simple with/in my statements, and hopefully, kind in my tone. I firmly believe Joseph Smith believed as he stated in his #11 Article of Faith. I believe he worked hard on #13, but failed...as we all do. I don't know what words Joseph would use today. I believe he would said to be a "Christan', you must have Faith, Repentance, Baptism, and the Gift of the Holy Ghost. I don't believe he denied ( or would deny) the right or privilege of anyone to *call* themselves whatever they want. ( Nor do I). #102: If I have been unclear, I am sorry for that. I have always tried to be simple with/in my statements, and hopefully, kind in my tone.
I firmly believe Joseph Smith believed as he stated in his #11 Article of Faith. I believe he worked hard on #13, but failed…as we all do.
I don’t know what words Joseph would use today. I believe he would said to be a “Christan’, you must have Faith, Repentance, Baptism, and the Gift of the Holy Ghost. I don’t believe he denied ( or would deny) the right or privilege of anyone to *call* themselves whatever they want. ( Nor do I).

]]> By: BHodges http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/26/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102177 BHodges Wed, 28 Nov 2007 00:41:30 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102177 101: You implied Joseph Smith would deny people the right or privilege to call themselves "Christian." Thus far you have advanced evidence that Joseph Smith disagreed with certain doctrines of other faiths, but not that he has denied anyone the right to believe they are a Christian, or be called by that title. I have seen considerable evidence to the contrary. 101: You implied Joseph Smith would deny people the right or privilege to call themselves “Christian.” Thus far you have advanced evidence that Joseph Smith disagreed with certain doctrines of other faiths, but not that he has denied anyone the right to believe they are a Christian, or be called by that title. I have seen considerable evidence to the contrary.

]]> By: Bob http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/26/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102176 Bob Wed, 28 Nov 2007 00:26:08 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102176 #99: The thread is about how non-Mormons feel. #96 is my view based on non-Mormon books or newspaper articles of the time. Also, #3,4,5 of the Articles of Faith seems to show Joseph Smith felt Salvation came by way of God giving Authority, not Grace. I am unclear as to his new views in Nauvoo. Yes..I do miss stuff, but I really try not to disregard anything. #99: The thread is about how non-Mormons feel.
#96 is my view based on non-Mormon books or newspaper articles of the time.
Also, #3,4,5 of the Articles of Faith seems to show Joseph Smith felt Salvation came by way of God giving Authority, not Grace. I am unclear as to his new views in Nauvoo.
Yes..I do miss stuff, but I really try not to disregard anything.

]]> By: kevinf http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/26/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102354 kevinf Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:55:12 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102354 I'll only add that when Pres. Benson condemned the church for not reading and making the Book of Mormon central to our worship, Grace became a more acceptable term in the church. However, the teachings about the atonement and grace were there all along. We perhaps didn't recognize it in the same way we do now. I’ll only add that when Pres. Benson condemned the church for not reading and making the Book of Mormon central to our worship, Grace became a more acceptable term in the church. However, the teachings about the atonement and grace were there all along. We perhaps didn’t recognize it in the same way we do now.

]]> By: BHodges http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/26/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102352 BHodges Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:46:14 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102352 #96 Bob: Your post regarding Joseph Smith shows a lack of understanding of his views on other religion; especially in the Nauvoo period. His sayings regarding other religions are in some of the most basic books regarding Joseph Smith the Church has published. Strangely, these views are seldom if ever (I've never seen them) presented by people strongly critical of Joseph Smith. I am forced at this point to conclude you have either missed key evidence to the contrary of your opinion, or disregarded it. #96 Bob: Your post regarding Joseph Smith shows a lack of understanding of his views on other religion; especially in the Nauvoo period.

His sayings regarding other religions are in some of the most basic books regarding Joseph Smith the Church has published.

Strangely, these views are seldom if ever (I’ve never seen them) presented by people strongly critical of Joseph Smith. I am forced at this point to conclude you have either missed key evidence to the contrary of your opinion, or disregarded it.

]]> By: lurkgirl http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/26/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102350 lurkgirl Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:41:19 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102350 I accidentally deleted the part where I speculate that your 4 million is in reference to American Lutherans. If you meant something else, please share. I accidentally deleted the part where I speculate that your 4 million is in reference to American Lutherans. If you meant something else, please share.

]]> By: lurkgirl http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/26/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102348 lurkgirl Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:40:07 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102348 Stephen M, I don't think anyone makes that call based on the grace v. works issue alone; I only meant to suggest that it is a relevant issue to many, as Bob suggested. And you're right: the same issue is sometimes contentious between Protestants and Catholics as well, not just Mormons and [insert religion here]. By the way, who's the 3-4 million? Perhaps I have missed your point, but I don't think the size of the membership of <em>any</em> religion is evidence of the validity of its doctrine. I'm not sure if you meant to imply such or not, but I sort of got that impression. Sorry if I've misunderstood. Ray, Thanks. I'll send you an email. Stephen M, I don’t think anyone makes that call based on the grace v. works issue alone; I only meant to suggest that it is a relevant issue to many, as Bob suggested. And you’re right: the same issue is sometimes contentious between Protestants and Catholics as well, not just Mormons and [insert religion here].

By the way, who’s the 3-4 million? Perhaps I have missed your point, but I don’t think the size of the membership of any religion is evidence of the validity of its doctrine. I’m not sure if you meant to imply such or not, but I sort of got that impression. Sorry if I’ve misunderstood.

Ray, Thanks. I’ll send you an email.

]]> By: Bob http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/26/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102346 Bob Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:20:23 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/11/the-problem-of-mormon-christianity/#comment-102346 My view is a little different: The real beef started when Joseph Smith's claimed only he could make you a "Christan". Only he had the power to Baptize, and you needed that/him (later his Priesthood holders) to be a Christan. He followed this by saying only he (or his Priesthood holders) could give someone the powers of the Holy Ghost and any of it's charismatic figures. My view is a little different: The real beef started when Joseph Smith’s claimed only he could make you a “Christan”. Only he had the power to Baptize, and you needed that/him (later his Priesthood holders) to be a Christan. He followed this by saying only he (or his Priesthood holders) could give someone the powers of the Holy Ghost and any of it’s charismatic figures.

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