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	<title>Comments on: Theodicy, the Fall, Forgiveness, and Christmas</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/11/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/11/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 20:53:36 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: RonanJH</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/11/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56730</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RonanJH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56730</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am grateful for everyone&#039;s kind words.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am grateful for everyone&#8217;s kind words.</p>
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		<title>By: Jobicus</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/11/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56729</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jobicus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56729</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Absolutely inspiring. Powerfully illustrated and eloquently given.  That must have been some Sacrament Meeting. Despite not being there I have felt the Spirit of the message just the same.

Let me know when you go on tour... I would love to get tickets;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely inspiring. Powerfully illustrated and eloquently given.  That must have been some Sacrament Meeting. Despite not being there I have felt the Spirit of the message just the same.</p>
<p>Let me know when you go on tour&#8230; I would love to get tickets;)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Doc</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/11/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56728</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Doc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56728</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you Ronan,
   Merry Christmas.  I really needed a reminder of what makes my faith beautiful after all the pounding and grating in the media.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Ronan,<br />
   Merry Christmas.  I really needed a reminder of what makes my faith beautiful after all the pounding and grating in the media.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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		<title>By: Joey</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/11/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56727</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:57:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56727</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for this talk. I really needed it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this talk. I really needed it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: RonanJH</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/11/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56726</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RonanJH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56726</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Antonio Parr sent me a wonderful link. Steve West laments the loss of the perfect Platonic form inherent in the Fall:

&lt;blockquote&gt;It&#039;s 11:38 p.m.  You just finished paying the last bills, put away the dishes from dinner, put in a load of laundry, folded what seemed a hundredfold small articles of clothing, fed the animals, and put the toys back in the toy chest (even the Matchbox cars pushed under the sofa).  You hoist a brimming laundry basket and, dimming the last light, wearily turn and head up the stairs.  At the top of the stairs you set the laundry basket down, thinking you will look in on your son and daughter where they sleep.  You stand at the side of their bed and watch their deep breathing, the sweetness of a face at peace, see the perspiration on their face as the surplus energy of a full day of play oozes out.  A feeling of joy wells up in you, unbidden, the kind that swallows up all your deep weariness.  And then you sense something else underneath the joy, something you recognize as a profound sadness, and you turn to leave, an unspoken prayer caught in your throat.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

West quotes Alain de Botton:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Christian philosophers have been singularly alive to the sadness which beauty may provoke. &#039;When we admire the beauty of visible objects, we experience joy certainly,&#039; observed the medieval thinker Hugh of St. Victor, &#039;but at the same time, we experience a feeling of tremendous void&#039; . . .  Beauty, then is a fragment of the divine, and the sight of it saddens us by evoking our sense of loss and our yearning for the life denied us.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I would not want to fight too strenuously with these beautiful thoughts. I would just suggest that perhaps things are beautiful &lt;em&gt;precisely because&lt;/em&gt; they are fragile, &lt;em&gt;precisely because&lt;/em&gt; they carry the seeds of decay. This make beauty so much the more wonderful. In Mormon thought we will not be restored to our premortal form, but to a reunion of the soul with the body. This is the soul in its truest sense!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Antonio Parr sent me a wonderful link. Steve West laments the loss of the perfect Platonic form inherent in the Fall:</p>
<blockquote><p>It&#8217;s 11:38 p.m.  You just finished paying the last bills, put away the dishes from dinner, put in a load of laundry, folded what seemed a hundredfold small articles of clothing, fed the animals, and put the toys back in the toy chest (even the Matchbox cars pushed under the sofa).  You hoist a brimming laundry basket and, dimming the last light, wearily turn and head up the stairs.  At the top of the stairs you set the laundry basket down, thinking you will look in on your son and daughter where they sleep.  You stand at the side of their bed and watch their deep breathing, the sweetness of a face at peace, see the perspiration on their face as the surplus energy of a full day of play oozes out.  A feeling of joy wells up in you, unbidden, the kind that swallows up all your deep weariness.  And then you sense something else underneath the joy, something you recognize as a profound sadness, and you turn to leave, an unspoken prayer caught in your throat.</p></blockquote>
<p>West quotes Alain de Botton:</p>
<blockquote><p>Christian philosophers have been singularly alive to the sadness which beauty may provoke. &#8216;When we admire the beauty of visible objects, we experience joy certainly,&#8217; observed the medieval thinker Hugh of St. Victor, &#8216;but at the same time, we experience a feeling of tremendous void&#8217; . . .  Beauty, then is a fragment of the divine, and the sight of it saddens us by evoking our sense of loss and our yearning for the life denied us.</p></blockquote>
<p>I would not want to fight too strenuously with these beautiful thoughts. I would just suggest that perhaps things are beautiful <em>precisely because</em> they are fragile, <em>precisely because</em> they carry the seeds of decay. This make beauty so much the more wonderful. In Mormon thought we will not be restored to our premortal form, but to a reunion of the soul with the body. This is the soul in its truest sense!</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/11/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56701</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 03:47:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56701</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good talk. Interestingly enough we had a similar talk, although not nearly as good and an ever-so slightly more political bent in Sacarament meeting. Our Stake Pres. instructed a high councilman to come and talk about what it is to be a Christian and the Romney stuff came out of it. I like yours better :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good talk. Interestingly enough we had a similar talk, although not nearly as good and an ever-so slightly more political bent in Sacarament meeting. Our Stake Pres. instructed a high councilman to come and talk about what it is to be a Christian and the Romney stuff came out of it. I like yours better :)</p>
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		<title>By: RonanJH</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/11/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56725</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RonanJH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56725</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, AP, the consensus here is that I&#039;ve picked up an American twang. I&#039;m constantly mocked for it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, AP, the consensus here is that I&#8217;ve picked up an American twang. I&#8217;m constantly mocked for it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Antonio Parr</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/11/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56724</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Antonio Parr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56724</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Having seen Ronan give a real, live sermon, I can attest that his delivery is superb, and only made more exquisite by that fancy accent of his.

Now that he is back in the motherland, I wonder if he talks &#039;merican to get the natives&#039; attention . . .]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having seen Ronan give a real, live sermon, I can attest that his delivery is superb, and only made more exquisite by that fancy accent of his.</p>
<p>Now that he is back in the motherland, I wonder if he talks &#8216;merican to get the natives&#8217; attention . . .</p>
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		<title>By: ArielW</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/11/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56723</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ArielW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56723</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I find it difficult to use metaphor well, but I particularly liked
&lt;blockquote&gt;this world’s fallen state, with its “opposition in all things,” offers the canvas upon which our lives our painted. It is not a monochrome white, but a messy splash of red, and blue, and black. As we learn to choose good over evil, a Caravaggio emerges — complicated, but beautiful, human and divine.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s one of the things I miss about Elder Maxwell.  He did it very well.  I am but a novice.  I too feel the pain when people do not equate me with being Christian.  Even more so if they are insensitive enough to take joy in that pain.  I&#039;ve found that it&#039;s hard to be a Christian.  Maybe that&#039;s why I like it so much.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it difficult to use metaphor well, but I particularly liked</p>
<blockquote><p>this world’s fallen state, with its “opposition in all things,” offers the canvas upon which our lives our painted. It is not a monochrome white, but a messy splash of red, and blue, and black. As we learn to choose good over evil, a Caravaggio emerges — complicated, but beautiful, human and divine.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s one of the things I miss about Elder Maxwell.  He did it very well.  I am but a novice.  I too feel the pain when people do not equate me with being Christian.  Even more so if they are insensitive enough to take joy in that pain.  I&#8217;ve found that it&#8217;s hard to be a Christian.  Maybe that&#8217;s why I like it so much.</p>
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		<title>By: RonanJH</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/11/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56722</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RonanJH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/theodicy-the-fall-forgiveness-and-christmas/#comment-56722</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[bbell,
I usually give sacrament talks in a gorilla mask.

Evans,
Call me Loki.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bbell,<br />
I usually give sacrament talks in a gorilla mask.</p>
<p>Evans,<br />
Call me Loki.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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