Comments on: They ain’t heavy; They’re my brethren http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/ A Mormon Blog Mon, 28 May 2012 20:53:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Ray http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112086 Sat, 15 Dec 2007 02:54:51 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112086 This also has moved far beyond the intent of the thread – and, John W, it is starting to turn personal. I’m getting out of the way.

]]> By: Ray http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112085 Sat, 15 Dec 2007 02:53:27 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112085 John W, I accept evolution and I don’t accept “the devil made me do it” – but eliminating Lucifer as a real entity is NOT within the scope of our doctrine. It is a very radical approach, actually. I would be willing to make an intellectual argument for interpreting his existence as figurative and allegorical, but I would not be able to make that assertion as doctrinal.

]]> By: John W. http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112084 Sat, 15 Dec 2007 02:51:22 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112084 Do you really think that a guy who lost out on his proposal for the plan of salvation would be so angry as to spend billions of years trying to take as many people as possible down with him? My mother can’t even keep a grudge for a week let alone millennia. And who are “we”. Mormonism is a rainbow of beliefs as it should be.

]]> By: John C. http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112083 Sat, 15 Dec 2007 02:44:02 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112083 Except that we do believe that there is a devil that tempts us to do evil. You are asserting certainties where we have speculation at best.

]]> By: John W. http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112082 Sat, 15 Dec 2007 02:33:37 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112082 The brain and the heart don’t work in the same way. I am sure you know that. The brain is wired to be plastic in its ability to adjust to outside influences. To what do you attribute our ability to make moral decisions? Does it not make sense that it is in a social groups best interest and thus the best interest of those who can reproduce to be good to each other? Blaming bad behavior on an evil outside source simplifies the process and takes the heat of the person committing sin. “The Devil made me do it” doesn’t do it for me. Our doctrine states that we live in a material world overseen by a material God. A God that came to be on a world in which he was tested just as we are being tested. Unless there is some “super” God that is immaterial that got the whole ball rolling I have to come to the conclusion that our God works within the confines of material laws. What better way to create a habitable world then to let evolution fill all the niches so as to give his greatest creatures (us) a nice place to be tested. I don’t know why this idea would make anyone uncomfortable.

John

]]> By: John C. http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112081 Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:55:36 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112081 Actually, John W., it totally does. You don’t control the way your heart functions. It is on automatic. If you are arguing that all of our mental functions are also on automatic, then that’s determinism.

]]> By: John W. http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112080 Sat, 15 Dec 2007 00:24:58 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112080 Who,

The fact that behavior is a result of the brain which is in turn the result of genetics in no way eliminates free will. One works with the brain one has. My point is this; the brain is a biological organ just like the heart. It therefore makes sense to me that our behavior is connected directly to the physical. If God used evolution to bring the human race into being then it only makes sense that the same evolutionary forces influence behavior. This should in no way diminish free will or the Lords influence in our lives.

John W.

]]> By: Mark N. http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112079 Fri, 14 Dec 2007 23:05:19 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112079 I hope I can stick with the Republican party as I find the libertarians to be too permissive when it comes to social issues: in other words allowing so much “freedom” that the rights of those who promote evil infringe on the rights of others to protect themselves and their families from it.

Sometimes I wonder how those who make this kind of a statement can claim to be at peace with the idea that we basically chose, in the pre-mortal existence, to follow a plan that allows those who promote evil to infringe on the rights of others to protect themselves and their families from it.

I think we were eventually convinced that the negative effects of that infringement could and would be completely negated by the atonement of the Savior, and so we decided we could live with that, since it would only be a temporary situation.

]]> By: Anonymous http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112078 Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:09:20 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112078 Yeah, I did a better job for him, huh, lol.

Anywho today’s NYT has an op-ed piece quoting Larry J. Sabato, a University of Virginia political scientist, that describes apologies such as Huckabee’s as “nonapology apologies…. They’re proving they’re not sincere by continuing to raise the subjects. Once you apologize, you should avoid the subject like the plague…. It’s no accident they continue to bring these things up [due the...] strong prejudice among many fundamentalist Christians against Mormonism.” http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/14/us/politics/14clinton.html?_r=2&ref=politics&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

]]> By: John C. http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112077 Fri, 14 Dec 2007 15:31:06 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/they-aint-heavy-theyre-my-brethren/#comment-112077 Anon the second,
I can’t tell if you are for Huckabee or against him, but if he had answered the question in this universe as thoroughly as he did in your universe I’d have more respect for him.

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