Comments on: A Little Fervency http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/13/a-little-fervency/ A Mormon Blog Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:39:41 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: bfwebster http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/13/a-little-fervency/#comment-120016 bfwebster Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:00:29 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/a-little-fervency/#comment-120016 <blockquote>#20: I have never heard of the Church helping anyone other than members, ever.</blockquote> The Church has distributed over $200 million in funds and nearly $800 million in goods and services worldwide over the past 20 years, much (and perhaps the majority) of which goes to people outside of the Church. Locally, our welfare cannery does regular canning runs for local (non-LDS) food banks. ..bruce..

#20: I have never heard of the Church helping anyone other than members, ever.

The Church has distributed over $200 million in funds and nearly $800 million in goods and services worldwide over the past 20 years, much (and perhaps the majority) of which goes to people outside of the Church. Locally, our welfare cannery does regular canning runs for local (non-LDS) food banks. ..bruce..

]]> By: Cyril Miller http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/13/a-little-fervency/#comment-120015 Cyril Miller Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:11:54 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/a-little-fervency/#comment-120015 Tracy, thank you so much for sharing this with us. Your eloquence and humble spirit are beautiful to behold. As a Bishop, I know that the Storehouse IS a miracle of this Church. I would like to share your posting with our ward members -- especially in our next Ward Welfare Committee meeting. A gentle word of thanks and praise can have such enormous consequences for good. Yours will, I assure you. Thank you so much. Tracy, thank you so much for sharing this with us. Your eloquence and humble spirit are beautiful to behold. As a Bishop, I know that the Storehouse IS a miracle of this Church. I would like to share your posting with our ward members — especially in our next Ward Welfare Committee meeting. A gentle word of thanks and praise can have such enormous consequences for good. Yours will, I assure you. Thank you so much.

]]> By: m&m http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/13/a-little-fervency/#comment-120014 m&m Thu, 14 Feb 2008 06:29:20 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/a-little-fervency/#comment-120014 Beautiful, Tracy. Thank you. Beautiful, Tracy. Thank you.

]]> By: manaen http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/13/a-little-fervency/#comment-120013 manaen Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:52:10 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/a-little-fervency/#comment-120013 42 & 45 . Re: The Big Picture, please (re)read the quotations I included at the end of #29. . My quick take is that the big picture is that this life is our best opportunity to become Christlike and everything here has that as it's overarching purpose. As noted in those quotations, everything -- including the welfare system -- is spiritually-based. . This system engenders humility in both donors and receivers, regardless of the net flow of temporal goods. Receivers as in Tracy's posting that her pride was buzzing in her ears. Donors as we give up treasures and as my recounting of humblin in #29. Humility, coupled with faith, opens the door to God changing us to become Christlike. . We first existed as intelligences. Everything beyond that manefestations of God's *grace* towards us: spirit creation, physical creation, earth life and all we falsly claim to own here, to all the pending blessings for which we have hope. You mentioned giving -- we cannot give truly anything that we don't own. As King Benjamin noted, "And now I ask, can ye say aught of yourselves? I answer you, Nay. Ye cannot say that ye are even as much as the dust of the earth; yet ye were created of the dust of the earth; <em>but behold, it belongeth to him who created you</em>." (Msh 2:25). We don't own anything, except possibly the original intelligences that we were, so it's pointless to talk of the relative values of what we give or receive on earth -- the true relative values are: 100% received; 0% given. . King Benjamin told us how to manage our stewardship of the Lord's things which we sometimes inaccurately say that we own, 21 And now, if God, who has created you, on whom you are dependent for your lives and for all that ye have and are, doth grant unto you whatsoever ye ask that is right, in faith, believing that ye shall receive, O then, how ye ought to impart of the substance that ye have one to another. 22 And if ye judge the man who putteth up his petition to you for your substance that he perish not, and condemn him, how much more just will be your condemnation for withholding your substance, <em>which doth not belong to you but to God, to whom also your life belongeth</em>; and yet ye put up no petition, nor repent of the thing which thou hast done. 26 And now, for the sake of these things which I have spoken unto you—that is, <em>for the sake of retaining a remission of your sins from day to day, that ye may walk guiltless before God</em> [not that we would be net gainers in the flow of goods] — I would that ye should impart of your substance to the poor, every man according to that which he hath, such as feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and administering to their relief, both spiritually and temporally, according to their wants. (Msh 4) . I hope this helps you to understand how the welfare system fits in the big picture. 42 & 45
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Re: The Big Picture, please (re)read the quotations I included at the end of #29.
.
My quick take is that the big picture is that this life is our best opportunity to become Christlike and everything here has that as it’s overarching purpose. As noted in those quotations, everything — including the welfare system — is spiritually-based.
.
This system engenders humility in both donors and receivers, regardless of the net flow of temporal goods. Receivers as in Tracy’s posting that her pride was buzzing in her ears. Donors as we give up treasures and as my recounting of humblin in #29. Humility, coupled with faith, opens the door to God changing us to become Christlike.
.
We first existed as intelligences. Everything beyond that manefestations of God’s *grace* towards us: spirit creation, physical creation, earth life and all we falsly claim to own here, to all the pending blessings for which we have hope. You mentioned giving — we cannot give truly anything that we don’t own. As King Benjamin noted, “And now I ask, can ye say aught of yourselves? I answer you, Nay. Ye cannot say that ye are even as much as the dust of the earth; yet ye were created of the dust of the earth; but behold, it belongeth to him who created you.” (Msh 2:25). We don’t own anything, except possibly the original intelligences that we were, so it’s pointless to talk of the relative values of what we give or receive on earth — the true relative values are: 100% received; 0% given.
.
King Benjamin told us how to manage our stewardship of the Lord’s things which we sometimes inaccurately say that we own,
21 And now, if God, who has created you, on whom you are dependent for your lives and for all that ye have and are, doth grant unto you whatsoever ye ask that is right, in faith, believing that ye shall receive, O then, how ye ought to impart of the substance that ye have one to another.
22 And if ye judge the man who putteth up his petition to you for your substance that he perish not, and condemn him, how much more just will be your condemnation for withholding your substance, which doth not belong to you but to God, to whom also your life belongeth; and yet ye put up no petition, nor repent of the thing which thou hast done.
26 And now, for the sake of these things which I have spoken unto you—that is, for the sake of retaining a remission of your sins from day to day, that ye may walk guiltless before God [not that we would be net gainers in the flow of goods] — I would that ye should impart of your substance to the poor, every man according to that which he hath, such as feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and administering to their relief, both spiritually and temporally, according to their wants.
(Msh 4)
.
I hope this helps you to understand how the welfare system fits in the big picture.

]]> By: Justine http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/13/a-little-fervency/#comment-120012 Justine Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:47:59 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/a-little-fervency/#comment-120012 This was really beautiful. I'd like to send this story along to a few other people, if that's apropos. Thank you for sharing such a touching experience. #29 comments about the full spectrum of experiences we are here to have is so resonating with me. We seemingly all have times in our lives where we are serving and are served. There are such powerful messages from both, and we cannot fully appreciate either until we've seen both sides. This was really beautiful. I’d like to send this story along to a few other people, if that’s apropos. Thank you for sharing such a touching experience.

#29 comments about the full spectrum of experiences we are here to have is so resonating with me. We seemingly all have times in our lives where we are serving and are served. There are such powerful messages from both, and we cannot fully appreciate either until we’ve seen both sides.

]]> By: Tracy M http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/13/a-little-fervency/#comment-120011 Tracy M Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:33:33 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/a-little-fervency/#comment-120011 Thank you all for your kindness and offers of prayers and help. We appreciate them all. Ironically (or not, I'm learning), during this time of strife we feel so buoyed up and cared for. My faith is strenghtened each day. As far as comments about money, you missed the point entirely, and I'm sorry about that. If anyone finds this worth of sharing, please feel free. It's public domain now- but I appreciate the asking. Thank you all for your kindness and offers of prayers and help. We appreciate them all.

Ironically (or not, I’m learning), during this time of strife we feel so buoyed up and cared for. My faith is strenghtened each day.

As far as comments about money, you missed the point entirely, and I’m sorry about that.

If anyone finds this worth of sharing, please feel free. It’s public domain now- but I appreciate the asking.

]]> By: bbell http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/13/a-little-fervency/#comment-120010 bbell Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:28:50 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/a-little-fervency/#comment-120010 No kidding Steve and Ray. If you are looking for a return on investment as measured by $$ try calling Fidelity No kidding Steve and Ray. If you are looking for a return on investment as measured by $$ try calling Fidelity

]]> By: Heather O. http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/13/a-little-fervency/#comment-120009 Heather O. Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:10:40 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/a-little-fervency/#comment-120009 Ah, Tracy, you rock. Ah, Tracy, you rock.

]]> By: Name (required) http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/13/a-little-fervency/#comment-120008 Name (required) Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:54:44 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/a-little-fervency/#comment-120008 #43--OK, I'll assume then that I just lack an understanding of the 'big picture'. I understand enough to feel for Tracy and I'm even willing to contribute to help her out. Despite this, the 'big picture' still eludes me. #43–OK, I’ll assume then that I just lack an understanding of the ‘big picture’. I understand enough to feel for Tracy and I’m even willing to contribute to help her out. Despite this, the ‘big picture’ still eludes me.

]]> By: Steve Evans http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/13/a-little-fervency/#comment-120007 Steve Evans Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:53:42 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/a-little-fervency/#comment-120007 Ray, I agree. This is not the post to start complaining about the Church's generosity or on its policies re: uses of tithing/fast offerings. Ray, I agree. This is not the post to start complaining about the Church’s generosity or on its policies re: uses of tithing/fast offerings.

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