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	<title>Comments on: BCC Papers 3/1: Head, Near Eastern Beekeeping</title>
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	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/17/bcc-papers-3-1-head/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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		<title>By: RonanJH</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/17/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115727</link>
		<dc:creator>RonanJH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2008 16:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115727</guid>
		<description>Warren Aston sent me the following note:

&lt;blockquote&gt;My only suggestion is that you should also mention that &quot;honey&quot; is mentioned in connection with the Lehite account, implying that bees were present at Nephi&#039;s &quot;Bountiful.&quot;  In fact wild bees can be found today in the cliffs along the coast of southern Oman, whereas they are usually not elsewhere in Arabia, presumably due to lack of vegetation. And they are never mentioned in connection with the New World, only the Old. This latter fact is interesting in view of the general fertility of Mesoamerica; it might reflect the heightened awareness of the bee in the Old World due to its rarity.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warren Aston sent me the following note:</p>
<blockquote><p>My only suggestion is that you should also mention that &#8220;honey&#8221; is mentioned in connection with the Lehite account, implying that bees were present at Nephi&#8217;s &#8220;Bountiful.&#8221;  In fact wild bees can be found today in the cliffs along the coast of southern Oman, whereas they are usually not elsewhere in Arabia, presumably due to lack of vegetation. And they are never mentioned in connection with the New World, only the Old. This latter fact is interesting in view of the general fertility of Mesoamerica; it might reflect the heightened awareness of the bee in the Old World due to its rarity.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Mellifera</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/17/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115726</link>
		<dc:creator>Mellifera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 02:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115726</guid>
		<description>Great article, Ronan!  I&#039;m pretty excited about this one...  I have done a little beekeeping and well, I really just like bees as perhaps you can tell by the handle.

As for bees actually making it into the New World with the Jaredites, good eye on noting that that wasn&#039;t actually documented.  Now that I think about it, bees surviving a year&#039;s ship voyage does seem a little unlikely for a few reasons.

The Europeans brought honeybees over to the New World on ships just fine, but that was a journey of 11-12 weeks at the longest.  Bees are well-equipped to handle long periods with no flowers available- that&#039;s why they make honey.  A year is a really long time though!  They&#039;re geared towards stocking up enough honey to last over a winter (when they use it up a lot slower than during summer- in winter they cuddle up in a ball to stay warm, which saves energy).  A year at room temperature, they&#039;d have to go through several barrels of honey to make it that long, and they&#039;d need some way of getting food into and poop out of the hive.  We had a plexiglass-fronted demo hive that we&#039;d take around to elementary schools to show the classes, and of course all entrances and exits had to be stopped up for this and you could tell they really didn&#039;t like not being able to come and go.

Which brings us to the next issue... spending a year inside a tight-like-unto-a-dish ship filled with bees?  You know, I&#039;m not at all surprised if they thought better of it.  : )

***

Ronan- for what it&#039;s worth, American Bee Journal and another big beekeeping periodical whose name I can&#039;t remember right now are very good sources for native beekeeping methodologies.  It&#039;s a little unusual that something geared towards American hobbyists would do that, but beekeepers are something of an international brotherhood (sort of like being Mormon).  This generates enough curiosity that every issue of these magazines has a pretty good and in-depth report on native beekeeping methods somewhere- Asia and the Middle East are featured most frequently since those seem to have the most diversity in domesticated bee species and tending styles.  There&#039;s a good one on meliponiculture from 2007 that I can try and find for you if you&#039;re interested, and all kinds of wild stuff on Iranian dwarf bees and giant Apis cerana from Thailand, etc that may or may not be of interest to you.  : )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article, Ronan!  I&#8217;m pretty excited about this one&#8230;  I have done a little beekeeping and well, I really just like bees as perhaps you can tell by the handle.</p>
<p>As for bees actually making it into the New World with the Jaredites, good eye on noting that that wasn&#8217;t actually documented.  Now that I think about it, bees surviving a year&#8217;s ship voyage does seem a little unlikely for a few reasons.</p>
<p>The Europeans brought honeybees over to the New World on ships just fine, but that was a journey of 11-12 weeks at the longest.  Bees are well-equipped to handle long periods with no flowers available- that&#8217;s why they make honey.  A year is a really long time though!  They&#8217;re geared towards stocking up enough honey to last over a winter (when they use it up a lot slower than during summer- in winter they cuddle up in a ball to stay warm, which saves energy).  A year at room temperature, they&#8217;d have to go through several barrels of honey to make it that long, and they&#8217;d need some way of getting food into and poop out of the hive.  We had a plexiglass-fronted demo hive that we&#8217;d take around to elementary schools to show the classes, and of course all entrances and exits had to be stopped up for this and you could tell they really didn&#8217;t like not being able to come and go.</p>
<p>Which brings us to the next issue&#8230; spending a year inside a tight-like-unto-a-dish ship filled with bees?  You know, I&#8217;m not at all surprised if they thought better of it.  : )</p>
<p>***</p>
<p>Ronan- for what it&#8217;s worth, American Bee Journal and another big beekeeping periodical whose name I can&#8217;t remember right now are very good sources for native beekeeping methodologies.  It&#8217;s a little unusual that something geared towards American hobbyists would do that, but beekeepers are something of an international brotherhood (sort of like being Mormon).  This generates enough curiosity that every issue of these magazines has a pretty good and in-depth report on native beekeeping methods somewhere- Asia and the Middle East are featured most frequently since those seem to have the most diversity in domesticated bee species and tending styles.  There&#8217;s a good one on meliponiculture from 2007 that I can try and find for you if you&#8217;re interested, and all kinds of wild stuff on Iranian dwarf bees and giant Apis cerana from Thailand, etc that may or may not be of interest to you.  : )</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/17/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115725</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 01:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115725</guid>
		<description>Fascinating, Ronan.  Thanks.

There are nearly innumerable things that I have heard over the years, from members and non-members alike, that &quot;the Book of Mormon teaches&quot; which, upon closer scrutiny, actually aren&#039;t taught or claimed in the book itself.  I also assumed years ago that the Jaredites took bees with them to the Americas; if someone else hadn&#039;t asked me to show them exactly where the book says that, I wouldn&#039;t have realized that it doesn&#039;t make that claim explicitly.

It&#039;s been amazing to me that each time I read the book I tend to pick up something new that I haven&#039;t understood previously - and often that is a change in something I used to think it taught but in reality it doesn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating, Ronan.  Thanks.</p>
<p>There are nearly innumerable things that I have heard over the years, from members and non-members alike, that &#8220;the Book of Mormon teaches&#8221; which, upon closer scrutiny, actually aren&#8217;t taught or claimed in the book itself.  I also assumed years ago that the Jaredites took bees with them to the Americas; if someone else hadn&#8217;t asked me to show them exactly where the book says that, I wouldn&#8217;t have realized that it doesn&#8217;t make that claim explicitly.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s been amazing to me that each time I read the book I tend to pick up something new that I haven&#8217;t understood previously &#8211; and often that is a change in something I used to think it taught but in reality it doesn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: MattG</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/17/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115724</link>
		<dc:creator>MattG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 01:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115724</guid>
		<description>True enough. Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True enough. Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: RonanJH</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/17/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115723</link>
		<dc:creator>RonanJH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 22:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115723</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, Europeans brought bees to the Americas on boats, so that may not be the issue. It&#039;s simply that deseret is only mentioned in an Old World setting so that&#039;s the only thing one need worry about. Well, there are other things one can worry about, but that will do for now (!).
&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Europeans brought bees to the Americas on boats, so that may not be the issue. It&#8217;s simply that deseret is only mentioned in an Old World setting so that&#8217;s the only thing one need worry about. Well, there are other things one can worry about, but that will do for now (!).</p>
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		<title>By: MattG</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/17/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115722</link>
		<dc:creator>MattG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 22:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115722</guid>
		<description>So to clarify, Ronan, you&#039;re saying that the Jaredites took bees with them on their initial journey, but not necessarily in the boats with them across the sea? Interesting, I hadn&#039;t thought of that. I had always assumed they brought the bees across the water, but close reading shows that they parked on the seashore for 4 years before crossing, and then spent almost an entire year at sea. Would bees even have been able to survive that long of a journey?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So to clarify, Ronan, you&#8217;re saying that the Jaredites took bees with them on their initial journey, but not necessarily in the boats with them across the sea? Interesting, I hadn&#8217;t thought of that. I had always assumed they brought the bees across the water, but close reading shows that they parked on the seashore for 4 years before crossing, and then spent almost an entire year at sea. Would bees even have been able to survive that long of a journey?</p>
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		<title>By: RonanJH</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/17/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115721</link>
		<dc:creator>RonanJH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115721</guid>
		<description>Kim,
The Book of Mormon says nothing about their carrying bees to the Americas. Their were no &lt;em&gt;apis mellifera&lt;/em&gt; in America until the European migrations. I&#039;m curious: why do you see the Valley of Nimrod as Africa?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kim,<br />
The Book of Mormon says nothing about their carrying bees to the Americas. Their were no <em>apis mellifera</em> in America until the European migrations. I&#8217;m curious: why do you see the Valley of Nimrod as Africa?</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/17/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115720</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 02:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115720</guid>
		<description>I just realized...if the traditional homeland of the Jaredites was the Valley of Nimrod (or thereabouts) then the bees they carried into the Promised Land were probably a relative of the African Bees...which we know by their more famous name &quot;killer bees&quot;.

Kind of funny, if it&#039;s true...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just realized&#8230;if the traditional homeland of the Jaredites was the Valley of Nimrod (or thereabouts) then the bees they carried into the Promised Land were probably a relative of the African Bees&#8230;which we know by their more famous name &#8220;killer bees&#8221;.</p>
<p>Kind of funny, if it&#8217;s true&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Barney</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/17/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115719</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Barney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115719</guid>
		<description>Good stuff, Ronan!  I especially appreciated all the pictures, which really make concepts like migratorty beekeeping come alive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good stuff, Ronan!  I especially appreciated all the pictures, which really make concepts like migratorty beekeeping come alive.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: RonanJH</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/17/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115718</link>
		<dc:creator>RonanJH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/bcc-papers-3-1-head/#comment-115718</guid>
		<description>This little piece of research owes its life to various people, things, and fora. Thanks especially go to the Maxwell Institute at BYU and the European Mormon Studies Association.

I have deliberately left the apologetic implications of Near Eastern apiculture (such as they are) unsaid at this stage.  One could spill some ink on the beeless Babel/Babylon, and I will at a later date, possibly as an essay on the use of the Documentary Hypothesis in Mormon apologetics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This little piece of research owes its life to various people, things, and fora. Thanks especially go to the Maxwell Institute at BYU and the European Mormon Studies Association.</p>
<p>I have deliberately left the apologetic implications of Near Eastern apiculture (such as they are) unsaid at this stage.  One could spill some ink on the beeless Babel/Babylon, and I will at a later date, possibly as an essay on the use of the Documentary Hypothesis in Mormon apologetics.</p>
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