But why don’t you think he was? David (and Sam) presented logical and thoughtful reasons for suggesting the possibility that he was. I was curious to know your reasons for dismissing it, that’s all. No need for the condescending and sarcastic tone.

jonh f. (#36), Why do you “shy away from the interpretations of the letter … that HJG might well have been lying or obfuscating based on a strategic agenda relating to countering polygamist fundamentalism”?

The entry notes that after being introduced at a meeting by HJ Grant as someone who had seen Joseph Smith, he (Cannon) told the audience that he not only had seen Joseph Smith, but he had also seen Jesus Christ. He went on to describe a vision that he experienced in the 1880s.

Charge by Oliver Cowdery to the original Twelve: “…it is necessary that you receive a testimony from heaven for yourselves; so that you can bear testimony to the truth of the Book Of Mormon, and that you have seen the face of God. That is more than the testimony of an angel….When you bear testimony that you have seen God, this testimony God will never suffer to fail, but will bear you out….Never cease striving until you have seen God face to face….Your ordination is not full and complete til God has laid His hand upon you….If the Savior in former days laid His hands upon His disciples, why not in latter days?” (Succession In The Church, by Reed C Durham, Jr. and Steven H. Heath, pages 25-26, Bookcraft, Inc., 1970.)

While on my mission in Northern California I heard two apostles (each of whom later became the prophet) bear testimony on this subject:

Sunday, 11/11/62–Gridley, California: Sometime in one of his two talks today, as Elder Spencer W. Kimball was bearing his testimony, he suddenly stopped and said quietly, “For I have seen Him!” Then he continued speaking, and I didn’t hear what was said as I repeated it in my mind several times. Afterwards, I went around asking people if they’d heard that and no one had. I didn’t record this incident in my journal, but have remembered it, over the years, as one of the highlights of my life–how often does one get to hear an apostle (& future prophet of God) say something so powerfully?

Then with a month to go on my mission, Elder Thomas S. Monson came to our mission, on August 15, 1964, and spoke to us at the Tri-Stake Center in Oakland (now the Multi-Stake Center by the Oakland Temple): “Elder McCann (from S. Australia) asked him if an apostle had to have a personal witness of Christ to be an apostle; he answered that he didn’t have to, to be one, but that they were to live so that they could, & that they didn’t talk about those things because they’re so sacred to them; and, he said that it was true, that apostles did have personal witness borne to them; but all he had to say then was ‘The Church is true’, and that was enough for me.” As I recall it 43-1/2 years later, when this question was asked, Elder Monson smiled his big, wide smile, and seemed to glow as he said, “Brethren, it’s true! We don’t talk about it because it’s sacred to us.”

Consider Elder Packer’s recent General Conference talk:

For a long time, something else puzzled me. Forty-six years ago I was a 37-year-old seminary supervisor. My Church calling was as an assistant teacher in a class in the Lindon Ward.

To my great surprise, I was called to meet with President David O. McKay. He took both of my hands in his and called me to be one of the General Authorities, an Assistant to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

A few days later, I came to Salt Lake City to meet with the First Presidency to be set apart as one of the General Authorities of the Church. This was the first time I had met with the First Presidency—President David O. McKay and his counselors, President Hugh B. Brown and President Henry D. Moyle.

President McKay explained that one of the responsibilities of an Assistant to the Twelve was to stand with the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as a special witness and to bear testimony that Jesus is the Christ. What he said next overwhelmed me: “Before we proceed to set you apart, I ask you to bear your testimony to us. We want to know if you have that witness.”

I did the best I could. I bore my testimony the same as I might have in a fast and testimony meeting in my ward. To my surprise, the Brethren of the Presidency seemed pleased and proceeded to confer the office upon me.

That puzzled me greatly, for I had supposed that someone called to such an office would have an unusual, different, and greatly enlarged testimony and spiritual power.

It puzzled me for a long time until finally I could see that I already had what was required: an abiding testimony in my heart of the Restoration of the fulness of the gospel through the Prophet Joseph Smith, that we have a Heavenly Father, and that Jesus Christ is our Redeemer. I may not have known all about it, but I did have a testimony, and I was willing to learn.

Elder Packer went on in his talk to discuss principles of inspiration/revelation tied to particular stewardships (offices) as the principle for leadership by revelation in the Church, nowhere mentioning a grand vision of Jesus as a requirement for Apostleship.

As to Elder McConkie’s rather baroque final testimony, which is very moving, I also interpret that as being a stronger testimony in stating that he had not yet seen the Savior because he concludes by saying that when he does (after he has died), he will not have a better knowledge of his existence than he already does right now.

Nick, I agree with Ray and others here (e.g. smb) about the presence of an ambiguity that shouldn’t be overlooked in HJG’s statement. He might very well be referring to God the Father. He might be drawing a distinction between seeing Jesus in a dream or vision (which are both in the mind) and a physical face-to-face appearance as to Joseph Smith in the First Vision. He might very well have been saying that he had not had such a physical appearance and was not aware of others who had besides Joseph Smith, without addressing the issue of seeing Jesus in a dream or vision.

I shy away from the interpretations of the letter implied in some comments above that HJG might well have been lying or obfuscating based on a strategic agenda relating to countering polygamist fundamentalism, though those are also possibilities.

I don’t think it matters whether or not they saw the Savior. Sometimes the veil is very thin and I can feel the spirit world and I assume it’s the same way for everyone, including prophets and apostles. It’s an undeniable phenomenon.