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	<title>Comments on: Your Friday Firestorm #36</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/29/your-friday-firestorm-36/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/29/your-friday-firestorm-36/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Evans</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/29/your-friday-firestorm-36/#comment-40673</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Evans]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Stephanie, an excellent point.  Now that you mention it, I&#039;m surprised too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephanie, an excellent point.  Now that you mention it, I&#8217;m surprised too.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephanie</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/29/your-friday-firestorm-36/#comment-40672</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephanie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I am surprised noone has mentioned that the Book of Mormon says this is what would happen. 2 Nephi 27:15-18]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am surprised noone has mentioned that the Book of Mormon says this is what would happen. 2 Nephi 27:15-18</p>
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		<title>By: Jared*</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/29/your-friday-firestorm-36/#comment-40671</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jared*]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 23:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/your-friday-firestorm-36/#comment-40671</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bushman says that Orson Pratt claimed that Joseph did not know about Isaiah 29 before Martin went to New York, and Martin said he (Martin) did not know either. Both claims were made decades after the fact.

I don&#039;t know what it means, but it occurs to me that the Book of Mormon&#039;s discussion of Isaiah 29 was apparently translated with Oliver Cowdrey--after Harris&#039;s visit to Anthon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bushman says that Orson Pratt claimed that Joseph did not know about Isaiah 29 before Martin went to New York, and Martin said he (Martin) did not know either. Both claims were made decades after the fact.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what it means, but it occurs to me that the Book of Mormon&#8217;s discussion of Isaiah 29 was apparently translated with Oliver Cowdrey&#8211;after Harris&#8217;s visit to Anthon.</p>
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		<title>By: smb</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/29/your-friday-firestorm-36/#comment-40670</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[smb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 21:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/your-friday-firestorm-36/#comment-40670</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[my memory is that he saw mitchell first, mitchell referred him to anthon, and off he went. (I could be wrong; these details don&#039;t seem germane to the event&#039;s interpretation) in any case mitchell never gave harris anything.

it is very improbable that harris and smith were unaware of Isaiah 29 before the event.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my memory is that he saw mitchell first, mitchell referred him to anthon, and off he went. (I could be wrong; these details don&#8217;t seem germane to the event&#8217;s interpretation) in any case mitchell never gave harris anything.</p>
<p>it is very improbable that harris and smith were unaware of Isaiah 29 before the event.</p>
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		<title>By: green mormon architect</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/29/your-friday-firestorm-36/#comment-40669</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[green mormon architect]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 21:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/your-friday-firestorm-36/#comment-40669</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Did Martin know about the prophecy beforehand?  If so, that may have influenced the exchange.  Just like if I&#039;m a prophet in Jerusalem with the world trying to kill me, I would know that I can kill people with fire and that eventually they will kill me, and my body will lie in the streets...

I don&#039;t remember hearing about Dr. Mitchell before.  With the first certificate torn up, he most likely would have requested the sanction from Mitchell in writing.  Has Dr. Mitchell&#039;s endorsement ever shown up?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did Martin know about the prophecy beforehand?  If so, that may have influenced the exchange.  Just like if I&#8217;m a prophet in Jerusalem with the world trying to kill me, I would know that I can kill people with fire and that eventually they will kill me, and my body will lie in the streets&#8230;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t remember hearing about Dr. Mitchell before.  With the first certificate torn up, he most likely would have requested the sanction from Mitchell in writing.  Has Dr. Mitchell&#8217;s endorsement ever shown up?</p>
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		<title>By: smb</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/29/your-friday-firestorm-36/#comment-40668</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[smb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/your-friday-firestorm-36/#comment-40668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[strong work, Kevin. I salute you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>strong work, Kevin. I salute you.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Barney</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/29/your-friday-firestorm-36/#comment-40667</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Barney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/your-friday-firestorm-36/#comment-40667</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Years ago I was walking down the hallway at church when the other ward&#039;s mission leader grabbed me and dragged me into the little interview room adjacent to the stake offices.  Sitting there was a beautiful young woman in tears.  She was a recent convert (or maybe investigator; I forget), and her mother was very antagonistic to the Church.  Her mum had told her that Anthon wouldn&#039;t have been able to read Egyptian.  The WML was flummoxed and didn&#039;t know what to say, and this girl&#039;s faith was crashing down around her.

I remember telling her matter of factly, &quot;Oh, I agree with your mother.&quot;  I also recall the look of total shock on both her face and that of the WML.  I don&#039;t recall the details of what I said after that (I&#039;m sure I waxed pedantic!), but I probably talked all about Champollion and the timing and Anthon and his classical encyclopedia and on and on.  The upshot was that the failure of a common Mormon argument for the BoM--that Anthon had somehow authenticated the translation--does not constitute an argument against the authenticity of the BoM.

I don&#039;t think she cared a whit about the specific arguments, she was just relieved that this wasn&#039;t somehow new information that was a death knell to the truthfulness of the Church, that someone who just happened to be walking down the hall would know all about it.

After talking for just a few minutes, this young woman sat there smiling, beaming in fact, through her still tear-stained eyes.  It was the most beautiful smile you could ever imagine.

(And that, my friends, is why I&#039;m involved in apologetics.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Years ago I was walking down the hallway at church when the other ward&#8217;s mission leader grabbed me and dragged me into the little interview room adjacent to the stake offices.  Sitting there was a beautiful young woman in tears.  She was a recent convert (or maybe investigator; I forget), and her mother was very antagonistic to the Church.  Her mum had told her that Anthon wouldn&#8217;t have been able to read Egyptian.  The WML was flummoxed and didn&#8217;t know what to say, and this girl&#8217;s faith was crashing down around her.</p>
<p>I remember telling her matter of factly, &#8220;Oh, I agree with your mother.&#8221;  I also recall the look of total shock on both her face and that of the WML.  I don&#8217;t recall the details of what I said after that (I&#8217;m sure I waxed pedantic!), but I probably talked all about Champollion and the timing and Anthon and his classical encyclopedia and on and on.  The upshot was that the failure of a common Mormon argument for the BoM&#8211;that Anthon had somehow authenticated the translation&#8211;does not constitute an argument against the authenticity of the BoM.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think she cared a whit about the specific arguments, she was just relieved that this wasn&#8217;t somehow new information that was a death knell to the truthfulness of the Church, that someone who just happened to be walking down the hall would know all about it.</p>
<p>After talking for just a few minutes, this young woman sat there smiling, beaming in fact, through her still tear-stained eyes.  It was the most beautiful smile you could ever imagine.</p>
<p>(And that, my friends, is why I&#8217;m involved in apologetics.)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: meems</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/29/your-friday-firestorm-36/#comment-40666</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[meems]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/your-friday-firestorm-36/#comment-40666</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Im more addressing the statement that Anthon said the translation was correct which while he may have said it, I hardly believe he had any idea whether it was correct or not.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

He could have been looking over the glyphs and the translation and been noting some obvious structural consistencies, as well as some glyphs that were similar enough to known symbols.  In other words, he could have been making a very educated guess as to whether ir not the translation was correct.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Im more addressing the statement that Anthon said the translation was correct which while he may have said it, I hardly believe he had any idea whether it was correct or not.</p></blockquote>
<p>He could have been looking over the glyphs and the translation and been noting some obvious structural consistencies, as well as some glyphs that were similar enough to known symbols.  In other words, he could have been making a very educated guess as to whether ir not the translation was correct.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Madson</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/29/your-friday-firestorm-36/#comment-40665</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joshua Madson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/your-friday-firestorm-36/#comment-40665</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[smb,

Im more addressing the statement that Anthon said the translation was correct which while he may have said it, I hardly believe he had any idea whether it was correct or not. he obviously could recognize glyphs whether they appeared like standard glyphs, heiratic, or demotic. I am just skeptical that he had any knowledge more than yes these look Egyptian.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>smb,</p>
<p>Im more addressing the statement that Anthon said the translation was correct which while he may have said it, I hardly believe he had any idea whether it was correct or not. he obviously could recognize glyphs whether they appeared like standard glyphs, heiratic, or demotic. I am just skeptical that he had any knowledge more than yes these look Egyptian.</p>
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		<title>By: Uglifruit</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/29/your-friday-firestorm-36/#comment-40664</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Uglifruit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/02/your-friday-firestorm-36/#comment-40664</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;JS was pasting in Martin Harris’ account.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, but at the time he was using MSWord95 and Windows ME, which was a notorious combination for bugs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>JS was pasting in Martin Harris’ account.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, but at the time he was using MSWord95 and Windows ME, which was a notorious combination for bugs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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