Comments on: Black and White and Gray All Over http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/05/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/ A Mormon Blog Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:39:51 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Wendy http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/05/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78478 Wendy Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:40:39 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78478 Though I was small I remember clearly my dad's crisis of faith when Pres. Benson was called to be the prophet. How could a prophet be a card-carrying member of the John Birch Society? His struggle to accept this eventually led him to a flexibility in religious thought he didn't have before. It's important to not break religion down to the lowest common denominator by accomodating everyone's views. It's also important to remember that Pres. Faust was a democrat ^^ Though I was small I remember clearly my dad’s crisis of faith when Pres. Benson was called to be the prophet. How could a prophet be a card-carrying member of the John Birch Society? His struggle to accept this eventually led him to a flexibility in religious thought he didn’t have before. It’s important to not break religion down to the lowest common denominator by accomodating everyone’s views. It’s also important to remember that Pres. Faust was a democrat ^^

]]> By: Brother Paul http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/05/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78477 Brother Paul Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:51:43 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78477 Are you really saved? Can you afford to be wrong??? Please read trulysaved.blogspot.com Are you really saved? Can you afford to be wrong??? Please read trulysaved.blogspot.com

]]> By: Brian http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/05/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78476 Brian Sun, 09 Mar 2008 22:03:02 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78476 I do recognize that some of my teachers growing up (I can think of one, who was great) taught a more grey version, but it seemed to be drowned out by black and whiters. I do recognize that some of my teachers growing up (I can think of one, who was great) taught a more grey version, but it seemed to be drowned out by black and whiters.

]]> By: Brian http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/05/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78475 Brian Sun, 09 Mar 2008 22:01:45 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78475 I have also found that my own experience has been more of the black and white nature. The fourteen points of a true prophet was emphasized. Pres Hinckley stated in talks that either this is the only true church or nothing of importance. Phrases like "when the prophet speaks, the discussion is over" are thrown about with regularity. If you accept what your teachers tell you as true growing up, you often tend to get black and white. I recognize that this is switching to more openness again. If I hadn't googled "kids repeat testimonies saying I know " (one of my personal pet peeves- being taught to say and believe things because of societal pressure) I would not have known about JS's polygamy (and all the other stuff). Because I embraced the church's teachings so completely, I was all the more disillusioned when I found out they were not as solid as they were presented. I am sorting through information now, and one of the things that makes me not want to stay in is that when I sat in primary with my kids, and when I was teaching the young men (up to a couple of weeks ago), I saw black and white. I love a lot of things about the church, but this is frustrating to me. Anyway, good luck to everyone in your quest for truth. I have also found that my own experience has been more of the black and white nature. The fourteen points of a true prophet was emphasized. Pres Hinckley stated in talks that either this is the only true church or nothing of importance. Phrases like “when the prophet speaks, the discussion is over” are thrown about with regularity. If you accept what your teachers tell you as true growing up, you often tend to get black and white. I recognize that this is switching to more openness again.

If I hadn’t googled “kids repeat testimonies saying I know ” (one of my personal pet peeves- being taught to say and believe things because of societal pressure) I would not have known about JS’s polygamy (and all the other stuff). Because I embraced the church’s teachings so completely, I was all the more disillusioned when I found out they were not as solid as they were presented.

I am sorting through information now, and one of the things that makes me not want to stay in is that when I sat in primary with my kids, and when I was teaching the young men (up to a couple of weeks ago), I saw black and white. I love a lot of things about the church, but this is frustrating to me.

Anyway, good luck to everyone in your quest for truth.

]]> By: Kaimi http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/05/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78474 Kaimi Fri, 07 Mar 2008 01:44:35 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78474 Bookworm Mama, It's just one data point, but I taught about multiple First vision accounts in Elders Quorum just a few weeks ago. I <a href="http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4359" rel="nofollow">blogged about it, too</a>. Bookworm Mama,

It’s just one data point, but I taught about multiple First vision accounts in Elders Quorum just a few weeks ago. I blogged about it, too.

]]> By: m&m http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/05/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78473 m&m Fri, 07 Mar 2008 00:51:23 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78473 <i>Having a “gray” mentor would go a long way</i> In my mind, that mentor should really be the Spirit in the end. Some of the problem of the black and white thinking, imo, is because it's too easy to keep things at the cerebral level rather than taking the teachings, getting them into our hearts, and coming to the Lord to help us live according to the principles. The Spirit can also help us stay anchored in times of confusion or questions or doubt. The more I have come to realize that this is part of the journey, the easier the gray has become for me to deal with. Having a “gray” mentor would go a long way

In my mind, that mentor should really be the Spirit in the end. Some of the problem of the black and white thinking, imo, is because it’s too easy to keep things at the cerebral level rather than taking the teachings, getting them into our hearts, and coming to the Lord to help us live according to the principles. The Spirit can also help us stay anchored in times of confusion or questions or doubt.

The more I have come to realize that this is part of the journey, the easier the gray has become for me to deal with.

]]> By: Antonio Parr http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/05/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78472 Antonio Parr Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:04:34 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78472 And this, too: "There lives more faith in honest doubt, believe me, than in half the creeds." Alfred Lord Tennyson And this, too:

“There lives more faith in honest doubt, believe me, than in half the creeds.” Alfred Lord Tennyson

]]> By: Antonio Parr http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/05/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78471 Antonio Parr Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:02:32 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78471 Late comment: Those who suggest that sin (read: sexual immorality) is the basis of all doubt/religious crises, need to repent/wash their spiritual mouths out with soap. It is a risky thing under any circumstances to judge another; but to add to the torment of those who wrestle with doubt by attributing their doubt to sin is striking below the belt. To quote the great Frederick Buechner, “doubts are the ants in the pants of faith.” Often those who wrestle the most are those who are on the cusp of new understanding and increased faith. Better to pray that the Lord will help their unbelief than to ignite a rumor mill as to possible sins that are purportedly keeping another from believing the way that we feel they should. Late comment: Those who suggest that sin (read: sexual immorality) is the basis of all doubt/religious crises, need to repent/wash their spiritual mouths out with soap. It is a risky thing under any circumstances to judge another; but to add to the torment of those who wrestle with doubt by attributing their doubt to sin is striking below the belt.

To quote the great Frederick Buechner, “doubts are the ants in the pants of faith.” Often those who wrestle the most are those who are on the cusp of new understanding and increased faith. Better to pray that the Lord will help their unbelief than to ignite a rumor mill as to possible sins that are purportedly keeping another from believing the way that we feel they should.

]]> By: john f. http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/05/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78470 john f. Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:51:30 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78470 re # 104 <i>I was speaking more about gospel doctrine, conference talks. I would expect and hope our teachings to be presented in more black/white, CTR language in those settings. Not only does that approach nurture new faith, it solidifies the ideals that form our church’s foundation.</i> That's a really good point and worth contemplating. I think this already happens to a certain extent but from an objective of sticking to basics and not to present a black and white picture. re # 104 I was speaking more about gospel doctrine, conference talks. I would expect and hope our teachings to be presented in more black/white, CTR language in those settings. Not only does that approach nurture new faith, it solidifies the ideals that form our church’s foundation.

That’s a really good point and worth contemplating. I think this already happens to a certain extent but from an objective of sticking to basics and not to present a black and white picture.

]]> By: RJ http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/05/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78469 RJ Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:38:56 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/03/black-and-white-and-gray-all-over/#comment-78469 Nitsav, #102 - Thanks. You anticipated my question at the end of #104. Nitsav, #102 – Thanks. You anticipated my question at the end of #104.

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