Comments on: Where Have All the Young Women Gone? http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/07/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/ A Mormon Blog Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:27:40 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: JZ http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/07/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94119 JZ Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:05:43 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94119 Exactly, Thomas. I think that if the Church wants to fix missionary work, retention, and a dozen other ills, it can kill them all with one stone: the Singles Programs (YSA, Middle Singles, and Seniors.) Strange that this idea is so seemingly foreign to Church culture. It makes you wonder, "By refusing to see the problem, what are we protecting here?" Exactly, Thomas. I think that if the Church wants to fix missionary work, retention, and a dozen other ills, it can kill them all with one stone: the Singles Programs (YSA, Middle Singles, and Seniors.)
Strange that this idea is so seemingly foreign to Church culture.

It makes you wonder, “By refusing to see the problem, what are we protecting here?”

]]> By: Thomas http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/07/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94118 Thomas Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:07:16 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94118 80% of single women 18-30 are inactive? Actually that stat seems accurate. In my stake the inactivity rate for ysa is about 90-92%. It's kinda sad considering the church-wide rate is only about 40% (last i read). such is the side-effect of a family-oriented church where singles take a backseat 80% of single women 18-30 are inactive? Actually that stat seems accurate. In my stake the inactivity rate for ysa is about 90-92%.

It’s kinda sad considering the church-wide rate is only about 40% (last i read). such is the side-effect of a family-oriented church where singles take a backseat

]]> By: Sam Kitterman http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/07/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94117 Sam Kitterman Tue, 15 Apr 2008 02:41:09 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94117 #224 I can appreciate your position when one is in a ward where you have enough active YW or YM so activities can function. Yet, what about wards where the numbers of active YM and YW can be counted on two hands or less? We experienced that with our own children after it was split and 80% of the families with youth were moved into the other ward. My son and one other were the only teachers, there were maybe three active priests and at the time, enough deacons to pass the Sacrament. We now have but two deacons (EQ and HP called upon not only to do Sacrament but help with Fast Offerings), no teachers and two priests. The activities the Church offers on the local level can be great when you have the numbers but when not, then parents must look to other "wholesome" activities for their children to participate in and sports is a big one. #224 I can appreciate your position when one is in a ward where you have enough active YW or YM so activities can function. Yet, what about wards where the numbers of active YM and YW can be counted on two hands or less? We experienced that with our own children after it was split and 80% of the families with youth were moved into the other ward. My son and one other were the only teachers, there were maybe three active priests and at the time, enough deacons to pass the Sacrament. We now have but two deacons (EQ and HP called upon not only to do Sacrament but help with Fast Offerings), no teachers and two priests.

The activities the Church offers on the local level can be great when you have the numbers but when not, then parents must look to other “wholesome” activities for their children to participate in and sports is a big one.

]]> By: James http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/07/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94116 James Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:48:16 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94116 I have to agree with posts #26 and #126 as well as others regarding the infantilizing of single adults. For many in the church, the attitude is that if someone is not married they are perpetually a priest/laurel no matter what the age. I have witnessed occasions where a married couple was assigned to "chaperone" a single adult dance. Keep in mind that the single adults have homes of their own and if they wanted to sin they would not need to sneak off to the primary room during the dance. I had a bishop in a singles ward tell us that we should not live alone. We needed to have roomates (same sex of course) to help keep us from transgressing. At 26 I could afford my own place and I was sick and tired of roomates. I was ready for some peace and quiet when I got home from work. When I had to go out of town for work, that same bishop told me that I should not stay in a hotel room because of all the temptations it would present without adult supervision. I told him I had adult supervision, me. He suggested that I contact the bishop of the local area where I was staying and make arrangements to stay with members of the church. Of course I told him no way, no how. I was perfectly capable of taking care of myself. My sister and some of her friends decided to go on an overnight temple trip. This was not a church sanctioned function just some single women who had been through the temple going on an excursion. The bishop got wind of it and tried to shoot it down. When he couldn't talk them out of it he suggested taking one of the married sisters in the ward to accomany them. These attitudes can drive a person away. I know that the gospel is true and that should be first and foremost in our thoughts, but when we are met with stuff like that it is hard to keep things in perspective. I have to agree with posts #26 and #126 as well as others regarding the infantilizing of single adults. For many in the church, the attitude is that if someone is not married they are perpetually a priest/laurel no matter what the age.

I have witnessed occasions where a married couple was assigned to “chaperone” a single adult dance. Keep in mind that the single adults have homes of their own and if they wanted to sin they would not need to sneak off to the primary room during the dance.

I had a bishop in a singles ward tell us that we should not live alone. We needed to have roomates (same sex of course) to help keep us from transgressing. At 26 I could afford my own place and I was sick and tired of roomates. I was ready for some peace and quiet when I got home from work.

When I had to go out of town for work, that same bishop told me that I should not stay in a hotel room because of all the temptations it would present without adult supervision. I told him I had adult supervision, me. He suggested that I contact the bishop of the local area where I was staying and make arrangements to stay with members of the church. Of course I told him no way, no how. I was perfectly capable of taking care of myself.

My sister and some of her friends decided to go on an overnight temple trip. This was not a church sanctioned function just some single women who had been through the temple going on an excursion. The bishop got wind of it and tried to shoot it down. When he couldn’t talk them out of it he suggested taking one of the married sisters in the ward to accomany them.

These attitudes can drive a person away. I know that the gospel is true and that should be first and foremost in our thoughts, but when we are met with stuff like that it is hard to keep things in perspective.

]]> By: david knowlton http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/07/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94115 david knowlton Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:38:08 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94115 JZ, something has changed. The consolidated schedule changed the amount of time people had for non-Church activities. Extra Church culture became more important. People moved to the suburbs and a different kind of Church was born. Time commitments and financial commitments prevented people from giving the time to the Church. As a result it is structurally different, and perhaps weaker, than when I was a kid. Nora Ray captures some of the issues in people's lives. Catholicism has also faced major changes and has lost enormous numbers of members, as have the mainline Protestant denominations. If it were not for immigrants Catholic numbers would have declined. Religion, it seems to me, faces a changed society and finds a changed place in it, as a result. There is lots to develop here, but for now this is just a small overview. Tod, I hope you feel better. Thanks for the comments. Poems in sacrament meeting, man. Cool. JZ, something has changed. The consolidated schedule changed the amount of time people had for non-Church activities. Extra Church culture became more important. People moved to the suburbs and a different kind of Church was born. Time commitments and financial commitments prevented people from giving the time to the Church. As a result it is structurally different, and perhaps weaker, than when I was a kid.

Nora Ray captures some of the issues in people’s lives.

Catholicism has also faced major changes and has lost enormous numbers of members, as have the mainline Protestant denominations. If it were not for immigrants Catholic numbers would have declined. Religion, it seems to me, faces a changed society and finds a changed place in it, as a result. There is lots to develop here, but for now this is just a small overview.

Tod, I hope you feel better. Thanks for the comments. Poems in sacrament meeting, man. Cool.

]]> By: JZ http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/07/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94114 JZ Mon, 14 Apr 2008 23:40:36 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94114 I think it was the TV that got us. Cable and commerical. Something happened between the sit-coms of the 80's and the evening dramas we see today (Desperate HW's, Sex in the City, etc...) Then there is the worship of mediocrity and idiocy: (American Idol, The Bachelor, Dancing with the Stars.) It's no wonder we have the trouble we have in the Church. Look at our cultural mirror. All I know is that when I was a kid in the mid 80's, every Stake in our region had something going on each summer. If is was not a Broadway Musical (and well produced), is was a Multi-Stake Road Show. Now? I think it was the TV that got us. Cable and commerical. Something happened between the sit-coms of the 80’s and the evening dramas we see today (Desperate HW’s, Sex in the City, etc…) Then there is the worship of mediocrity and idiocy: (American Idol, The Bachelor, Dancing with the Stars.) It’s no wonder we have the trouble we have in the Church. Look at our cultural mirror.

All I know is that when I was a kid in the mid 80’s, every Stake in our region had something going on each summer. If is was not a Broadway Musical (and well produced), is was a Multi-Stake Road Show. Now?

]]> By: JZ http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/07/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94113 JZ Mon, 14 Apr 2008 23:33:09 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94113 Really. Until we begin to take other's (and our own) compaints seriously, we only drive the problem(s) deeper. I am not saying this as a judgement on anyone's comment in this discussion. Rather, I am just saying that there are alot of unhappy people in the Church, and until we figure out why, little improvement will take place. Really. Until we begin to take other’s (and our own) compaints seriously, we only drive the problem(s) deeper.

I am not saying this as a judgement on anyone’s comment in this discussion. Rather, I am just saying that there are alot of unhappy people in the Church, and until we figure out why, little improvement will take place.

]]> By: Nora Ray http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/07/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94112 Nora Ray Mon, 14 Apr 2008 23:32:25 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94112 I think this is symptomatic of a much more basic problem. The World is winning! I don't have the exact quote, but Joseph Smith said something to the effect that a religion which does not require sacrifice will never have the power to save men's souls. We have tried to make things so much easier on families that I fear we have made them too easy. Instead of encouraging our girls to attend YW activities, we nod understandingly when the parents say it is too much trouble to take them. It isn't too much trouble to take them to play HS volleyball though or participate in play practice every week night for 6 weeks. Those things are good too in the right proportions, but our youth develop their priorities based on ours and if the church meetings are seen by us as too much trouble, that is what they become. I think this is symptomatic of a much more basic problem. The World is winning! I don’t have the exact quote, but Joseph Smith said something to the effect that a religion which does not require sacrifice will never have the power to save men’s souls. We have tried to make things so much easier on families that I fear we have made them too easy. Instead of encouraging our girls to attend YW activities, we nod understandingly when the parents say it is too much trouble to take them. It isn’t too much trouble to take them to play HS volleyball though or participate in play practice every week night for 6 weeks. Those things are good too in the right proportions, but our youth develop their priorities based on ours and if the church meetings are seen by us as too much trouble, that is what they become.

]]> By: JZ http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/07/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94111 JZ Mon, 14 Apr 2008 23:30:18 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94111 I am beginning to believe that everyone in the Church needs a support group. I am beginning to believe that everyone in the Church needs a support group.

]]> By: Ziff http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/07/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94110 Ziff Mon, 14 Apr 2008 06:17:44 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/#comment-94110 Amen to #207. I have nothing to add, but thanks to everyone who wrote on this thread. You all have given me lots to think about. I particularly appreciate reading everyone's personal experiences and I appreciate you sharing them even though it sounds like so many have been painful. CS Eric (#199), I love your description: <em>Sometimes the Church feels that way. If you are part of a traditional family, you are home. If you are single or childless, you are in someone else’s home.</em> Amen to #207. I have nothing to add, but thanks to everyone who wrote on this thread. You all have given me lots to think about. I particularly appreciate reading everyone’s personal experiences and I appreciate you sharing them even though it sounds like so many have been painful.

CS Eric (#199), I love your description:

Sometimes the Church feels that way. If you are part of a traditional family, you are home. If you are single or childless, you are in someone else’s home.

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