Comments on: Information on sectarian polygamy

By: Mel Ben

Mel Ben — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:58:19 +0000

I truly think it is appalling that people are so eager and willing to cast judgement on the whole of this group rather than focusing on the reality, that in no part outside of their sect walls,,,in our own society are we free from young girls becoming pregnant, and that none of these women have been accused of a crime, none of them has been accused of rape or abuse of her children. These people are indoctrinated and know what they have been taught and their values tailored to believe in, based on doctorine introduced for a very different time and circumstance. I dont think forcing young girls to marry is right to do, nor men to take advantage of their status to a non consentual act on anyone under the age of consent. But for the most part, these are probably some of the most decent and respectable women who are righteous and innoent of abusing anyone… why are we throwing stones? Condemning an entire group for what sins of the very few have committed and likely even the men were taught that this was gods plan for them and they were fulfilling gods calling for them. Any other misguided and horrible traditions aside, if we are so quick to rip these children away from their mothers, without due process or their having been charged with a crime, we are by extention raping them in a sense ourselves of their heritage their siblings, and the right to a separation of church and state that does not punish people for their beliefs, but on their actions. It seems just as rude as raping a young girl is, to continue the victimization of that raped woman by stealing her children from her afterward….. Just what exactly are these women guilty of ? Being forced to marry and bear children, only to have them ripped from their bosom, because we think the women are victimized and girls abused. Arent we continuing the victimization of these women by further humiliating them and treating them as criminals and aparty to the “Crime” Didnt the call from the girl who first initiated this raid, turn out to be completely unaffiliated with it and a hoax? What happened to our sense of fairness and freedom. Havent the women suffered enough? Taught to believe, and follow in this polygamy.. were the decendants of the persecuted and dwindling population of mormons in 1880. These were marriages of women to the only men left in the group, it is not only a marraige to the men though, they became family and community with the entire group of women. These original marriages./who otherwise would have remained unmairred due to no available men to marry them within the group. Persecuted to the extreme these women would have suffered fates much worse had they not had some sort of supporting group, during that time. They didnt come up with the idea of polygamy all on their

By: Paul Sant

Paul Sant — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 20:08:28 +0000

People need to relax and admit to themselves what everyone at one point has seriously pondered about: the fact that polygamy is nothing more than a huge mistake.

When men obtain high levels of power, one of the first things that happens is they start sleeping around. It’s happened with plenty of former U.S. presidents, other politicians, civic leaders, religious leaders, and so on.

Joseph Smith simply invented ‘polygamy’ as a means to cover up his affair with Fanny Alger.

This doesn’t mean everything else in the church is false, it simply means that Joseph was human. Seriously, the whole polygamy thing was nothing more than a huge mistake. Just like many other mistakes the church made and subsequently abandoned (e.g. Ban on the priesthood, overzealous Word of Wisdom enforcement, full-length garments, etc.) The church needs to own up to this.

By: Christopher

Christopher — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:50:53 +0000

J., Amanda stated on the 400 kids thread that she is FLDS, if I recall correctly.

john f., based on the link you provided to her comment on that thread, it appears that Amanda is a fundamentalist Mormon, but not affiliated with the FLDS.

By: J. Stapley

J. Stapley — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:41:19 +0000

Amanda, while maintaining the sanctity of temple. It is my understanding, that the now public lecture at the veil did not persist longer than a few years after Brigham’s death in 1877. I’d be curious how you reconstructed the the pre-1921 endowment in its extended (6 hour) form.

Also, as the 19th century Utah divorce laws were written by Church authorities, it wasn’t simply a non-church issue. Can FLDS women leave the Church and retain custody of their children and property?

By: Thomas Parkin

Thomas Parkin — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:59:10 +0000

“As far as beliefs go, we are just like the LDS minus the changes.”

Or, one might say, minus the learning.

Progression, development, makes change neccesary – it _means_ change. Often, and the history of the church is nothing if not proof of this, that change sometimes comes as we are forced to adjust to outside pressures. The Lord might use the Assyrians as a scourge, but not to calcify us in our traditions, but to see that our traditions are not sufficient, and that we don’t yet possees a full repetoire of righteous responces to existence. And that we need to rely on the Lord, and not on tradition. We read that we lose light and truth not only by iniquity, but by the traditions of our fathers. If LDS society looks the same in twenty or fifty years as it looks today, that will be because we have failed to grow.

But I am very sympathetic to what your community in Texas is going through, Amanda. I hope that the end result is greater tolerance and understanding. I doubt that will be the result, but I hope for at least a smidgen of it.

By: john f.

john f. — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:24:09 +0000

At least, that is the message I got from this comment over there.

By: john f.

john f. — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:16:43 +0000

J., Amanda stated on the 400 kids thread that she is FLDS, if I recall correctly.

By: Amanda

Amanda — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:15:27 +0000

mmiles,

By modern I mean all those changes made from 1904 on, or from the time that Adam-God was removed from the lecture at the veil on. Every fundamentalist that I know also believes and practices second annointings as well. We also use the garment as God revealed and not, as Joseph F. Smith put it, the “mutilated” version of the garment.

I just think it’s kind of funny that LDS people view the fundamentalist as being so different. As far as beliefs go, we are just like the LDS minus the changes. We use the same scriptures, we sing the same hymns, we practice the same ordinances, and the priesthood lineages of the two go back to the same source.

By: J. Stapley

J. Stapley — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:48:58 +0000

I’m assuming you refer to the pre-1990 endowment, and not the earlier changes, Amanda. Now, my I ask how you know about the FLDS temple rites?

By: mmiles

mmiles — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:30:59 +0000

Amanda,
How do you know they are the same? I am assuming you have only experienced your own odinances. Seeing there has been many changes, I’m not sure what you mean by ‘modern’.