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	<title>Comments on: Desert Ranches in the News</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/15/ranches-in-the-news/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/15/ranches-in-the-news/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Bot</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/15/ranches-in-the-news/#comment-78496</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/ranches-in-the-news/#comment-78496</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[None of us supports the FLDS&#039; abuse of teenage girls.  But when will the Texas Rangers raid the Dallas inner-city homes of pregnant 14-year-olds and carry off the other children, who might be subject to similar abuse?  And when will they close Planned Parenthood locations which refuse to report statutory rape of 14-year-olds by men in their twenties?  Shouldn&#039;t Texas law be enforced equally?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>None of us supports the FLDS&#8217; abuse of teenage girls.  But when will the Texas Rangers raid the Dallas inner-city homes of pregnant 14-year-olds and carry off the other children, who might be subject to similar abuse?  And when will they close Planned Parenthood locations which refuse to report statutory rape of 14-year-olds by men in their twenties?  Shouldn&#8217;t Texas law be enforced equally?</p>
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		<title>By: MikeInWeHo</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/15/ranches-in-the-news/#comment-78495</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeInWeHo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/ranches-in-the-news/#comment-78495</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No TCBY here, John (or polygamists, or brothels for that matter).  We&#039;ve been overrun by &lt;a href=&quot;http://pinkberry.com/html/pbmain.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Pinkberry.&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No TCBY here, John (or polygamists, or brothels for that matter).  We&#8217;ve been overrun by <a href="http://pinkberry.com/html/pbmain.php" rel="nofollow">Pinkberry.</a></p>
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		<title>By: JKC</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/15/ranches-in-the-news/#comment-78494</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JKC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/ranches-in-the-news/#comment-78494</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John,

That was my point.  That in Nevada prostitution is legal and in Texas child sexual abuse is illegal.  Technically, I think there are bigamy statutes in Texas, but that&#039;s not really the focus of the raid; the focus is on child sexual abuse.

That said, it&#039;s pretty shaky grounds for the wholesale capture of over 400 kids, not to mention the needless separation from their mothers.  Whether the Texas authorities had pure motives or not, the execution has been awful. (Resisting the urge to make a thread-jacking, snarky Iraq comparison).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>That was my point.  That in Nevada prostitution is legal and in Texas child sexual abuse is illegal.  Technically, I think there are bigamy statutes in Texas, but that&#8217;s not really the focus of the raid; the focus is on child sexual abuse.</p>
<p>That said, it&#8217;s pretty shaky grounds for the wholesale capture of over 400 kids, not to mention the needless separation from their mothers.  Whether the Texas authorities had pure motives or not, the execution has been awful. (Resisting the urge to make a thread-jacking, snarky Iraq comparison).</p>
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		<title>By: john f.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/15/ranches-in-the-news/#comment-78493</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[john f.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/ranches-in-the-news/#comment-78493</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mike, TCBM -- &quot;That Can&#039;t Be Mormon&quot; -- hilarious!  Do you have TCBY in Cali/WeHo?

JKC, &quot;That, and also, the Chicken ranch is legal.&quot;

Actually, to my knowledge, the YFZ is legal as well, isn&#039;t it?  Was the raid justified on the basis that bigamy was being practiced there, thus falling under an exception from the First Amendment following &lt;i&gt;Reynolds&lt;/i&gt;?  I haven&#039;t seen bigamy as a basis for this raid in any of the rhetoric from the Texas CPS.

Wasn&#039;t the basis for the raid that there was one specific allegation of abuse made by a 16 year old concerning abuse against herself?  And then the authorities took all the kids away from their parents on the basis that they were &quot;at risk&quot; of being put into arranged marriages?

I believe it is well established that arranged marriages have occured in FLDS communities.  But I think the extent to which underaged arranged marriages have occured is highly disputed.

Is the state justified in removing a five year old girl from her mother because a 16 year old girl in her village was abused and based on the prospect that at age 13 she might be put into an arranged marriage when she turns 16?  (This &lt;a href=&quot;http://messengerandadvocate.wordpress.com/2008/04/10/standing-with-our-flds-sisters-and-brothers/#comment-15804&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;was discussed&lt;/a&gt; at Guy&#039;s blog a couple of days ago.) It doesn&#039;t seem right.

To my knowledge, unless there is abuse occuring, it is legal for the FLDS to be living -- even in seclusion -- at the YFZ ranch.  (The Texas authorities could presumably have raided the compound under a bigamy statute and arrested the fathers and mothers for that offence, thus landing the kids in state foster care, I would think.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, TCBM &#8212; &#8220;That Can&#8217;t Be Mormon&#8221; &#8212; hilarious!  Do you have TCBY in Cali/WeHo?</p>
<p>JKC, &#8220;That, and also, the Chicken ranch is legal.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, to my knowledge, the YFZ is legal as well, isn&#8217;t it?  Was the raid justified on the basis that bigamy was being practiced there, thus falling under an exception from the First Amendment following <i>Reynolds</i>?  I haven&#8217;t seen bigamy as a basis for this raid in any of the rhetoric from the Texas CPS.</p>
<p>Wasn&#8217;t the basis for the raid that there was one specific allegation of abuse made by a 16 year old concerning abuse against herself?  And then the authorities took all the kids away from their parents on the basis that they were &#8220;at risk&#8221; of being put into arranged marriages?</p>
<p>I believe it is well established that arranged marriages have occured in FLDS communities.  But I think the extent to which underaged arranged marriages have occured is highly disputed.</p>
<p>Is the state justified in removing a five year old girl from her mother because a 16 year old girl in her village was abused and based on the prospect that at age 13 she might be put into an arranged marriage when she turns 16?  (This <a href="http://messengerandadvocate.wordpress.com/2008/04/10/standing-with-our-flds-sisters-and-brothers/#comment-15804" rel="nofollow">was discussed</a> at Guy&#8217;s blog a couple of days ago.) It doesn&#8217;t seem right.</p>
<p>To my knowledge, unless there is abuse occuring, it is legal for the FLDS to be living &#8212; even in seclusion &#8212; at the YFZ ranch.  (The Texas authorities could presumably have raided the compound under a bigamy statute and arrested the fathers and mothers for that offence, thus landing the kids in state foster care, I would think.)</p>
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		<title>By: MikeInWeHo</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/15/ranches-in-the-news/#comment-78492</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeInWeHo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:43:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/ranches-in-the-news/#comment-78492</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fascinating juxtaposition.  But JKC is correct; it&#039;s an apples-and-oranges comparison.  If dozens of underage girls were living in the Chicken Ranch and coerced into &quot;spiritual prostitution&quot; to skirt the law, I suspect even Nevada would act.

That said, obviously prostitution hurts a lot more women than the occasional &quot;I Can&#039;t Believe It&#039;s Not Mormon!&quot; polygamist sect out in the desert.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating juxtaposition.  But JKC is correct; it&#8217;s an apples-and-oranges comparison.  If dozens of underage girls were living in the Chicken Ranch and coerced into &#8220;spiritual prostitution&#8221; to skirt the law, I suspect even Nevada would act.</p>
<p>That said, obviously prostitution hurts a lot more women than the occasional &#8220;I Can&#8217;t Believe It&#8217;s Not Mormon!&#8221; polygamist sect out in the desert.</p>
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		<title>By: JKC</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/15/ranches-in-the-news/#comment-78491</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JKC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/ranches-in-the-news/#comment-78491</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Peter, to be fair to Texas, I think they&#039;re concern is more with child abuse than with exploitation of women.  Right or wrong, there is a difference between 30-something women who at least in part choose a life of sex for money and teenagers who are literally forced into sexual relationships where the men don&#039;t pay.

That difference excuses neither, but if you approach it with concern about child abuse, its easy to see why Texas has done what it has done.  (Of course, that&#039;s not to say that Texas has done it well; I think it&#039;s probably done more harm than good).

That, and also, the Chicken ranch is legal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, to be fair to Texas, I think they&#8217;re concern is more with child abuse than with exploitation of women.  Right or wrong, there is a difference between 30-something women who at least in part choose a life of sex for money and teenagers who are literally forced into sexual relationships where the men don&#8217;t pay.</p>
<p>That difference excuses neither, but if you approach it with concern about child abuse, its easy to see why Texas has done what it has done.  (Of course, that&#8217;s not to say that Texas has done it well; I think it&#8217;s probably done more harm than good).</p>
<p>That, and also, the Chicken ranch is legal.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter LLC</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/15/ranches-in-the-news/#comment-78490</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter LLC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/ranches-in-the-news/#comment-78490</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apparently not all forms of female exploitation merit equal attention in the eyes of state regulators.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently not all forms of female exploitation merit equal attention in the eyes of state regulators.</p>
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