Comments on: The experience of Mormon children in English school-based religious education and worship http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/17/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/ A Mormon Blog Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:27:40 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Sarah http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/17/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58066 Sarah Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:40:05 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58066 Out of curiosity, Ronan, did you limit the students you talked to to those who chose Religious Studies for one of their GCSEs or A-levels? I was under the impression that RE was optional after the British version of junior high school (age 13 or so,) or that it was a very low-level requirement (like Health classes in the US -- in some school systems you take it once for half a year in 8th grade, are graded pass/fail, and then never speak of it again.) I was just thinking it'd be somewhat less oppressive-feeling if you don't really have to take it for very long (or at all) and you spent about twenty times the effort and number of hours in Seminary anyhow. Out of curiosity, Ronan, did you limit the students you talked to to those who chose Religious Studies for one of their GCSEs or A-levels? I was under the impression that RE was optional after the British version of junior high school (age 13 or so,) or that it was a very low-level requirement (like Health classes in the US — in some school systems you take it once for half a year in 8th grade, are graded pass/fail, and then never speak of it again.)

I was just thinking it’d be somewhat less oppressive-feeling if you don’t really have to take it for very long (or at all) and you spent about twenty times the effort and number of hours in Seminary anyhow.

]]> By: Ronan http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/17/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58065 Ronan Sat, 19 Apr 2008 18:21:56 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58065 Natalie, I very much doubt that. Private schools will take the cash of Hindu, Mormon, and Satanist. Natalie,
I very much doubt that. Private schools will take the cash of Hindu, Mormon, and Satanist.

]]> By: Natalie http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/17/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58064 Natalie Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:40:58 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58064 Mexico, I have heard, works the same way as the UK. A civil union has to happen first. Personally, I really wish that we in the US operated in like manner. I think if would help us clarify conversations about who can marry or have a civil union if we recognized that marriage involves a number of components, some civil and some religious. Plus, I would have given anything to have been able to have had a wedding that my whole family could attend. I think it is extremely insensitive to not allow church members the opportunity to have both a civil and temple wedding. Why should having a civil wedding diminish the temple one? Ronan, my former neighbors are Hindus leaving in London. They told me that they could not get their son into the majority of schools that we would consider private in America, because they did not allow non-Christians. Do you know if this report is accurate? Mexico, I have heard, works the same way as the UK. A civil union has to happen first. Personally, I really wish that we in the US operated in like manner. I think if would help us clarify conversations about who can marry or have a civil union if we recognized that marriage involves a number of components, some civil and some religious. Plus, I would have given anything to have been able to have had a wedding that my whole family could attend. I think it is extremely insensitive to not allow church members the opportunity to have both a civil and temple wedding. Why should having a civil wedding diminish the temple one?

Ronan, my former neighbors are Hindus leaving in London. They told me that they could not get their son into the majority of schools that we would consider private in America, because they did not allow non-Christians. Do you know if this report is accurate?

]]> By: Ray http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/17/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58063 Ray Fri, 18 Apr 2008 00:14:38 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58063 Ron, then stay out of England and France. The wait was established, I believe, to ensure that those who weren't worthy to be married in the temple but (in that day and age) had to get married had sufficient time to repent and gain worthiness. Absent that need, why make someone wait? Imho, this falls into traditions of our fathers that get expanded way beyond the original (proper) intent. In America (or any other country that allows temple marriage as recognized by the state), in situations where not all family and friends can attend the actual marriage ceremony, I suggest a reception where the couple re-commits to each other (as husband and wife) and exchanges rings. As long as everyone understands that they are married already, why not go through the motions for those who could not witness the actual marriage. As for RE in high school, I wouldn't mind it for my kids, at all. It would give me a chance to debunk the crap that would be taught about us. Ron, then stay out of England and France.

The wait was established, I believe, to ensure that those who weren’t worthy to be married in the temple but (in that day and age) had to get married had sufficient time to repent and gain worthiness. Absent that need, why make someone wait? Imho, this falls into traditions of our fathers that get expanded way beyond the original (proper) intent.

In America (or any other country that allows temple marriage as recognized by the state), in situations where not all family and friends can attend the actual marriage ceremony, I suggest a reception where the couple re-commits to each other (as husband and wife) and exchanges rings. As long as everyone understands that they are married already, why not go through the motions for those who could not witness the actual marriage.

As for RE in high school, I wouldn’t mind it for my kids, at all. It would give me a chance to debunk the crap that would be taught about us.

]]> By: Single Sister http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/17/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58062 Single Sister Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:14:08 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58062 I don't think that having a civil ceremony takes away from the sacredness of the Temple Ceremony (using the UK model, the Temple Ceremony has to take place within 24-48 hours after the civil ceremony). Standing before your family (members or not) and pledging your love in front of them is just as sacred a thing to do out of the Temple as it is in. In my opinion, saying "Families are Forever" and then refusing to allow the people who loved and supported you through your life to participate in the most important day of your life is cruel. I've seen too many instances in my life where families are left crushed - and bitter - because they cannot see their child/family member get married. I don't see how that is good for the church, and I don't see how that can be considered "sacred". I don’t think that having a civil ceremony takes away from the sacredness of the Temple Ceremony (using the UK model, the Temple Ceremony has to take place within 24-48 hours after the civil ceremony). Standing before your family (members or not) and pledging your love in front of them is just as sacred a thing to do out of the Temple as it is in. In my opinion, saying “Families are Forever” and then refusing to allow the people who loved and supported you through your life to participate in the most important day of your life is cruel. I’ve seen too many instances in my life where families are left crushed – and bitter – because they cannot see their child/family member get married. I don’t see how that is good for the church, and I don’t see how that can be considered “sacred”.

]]> By: Ronan http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/17/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58061 Ronan Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:01:41 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58061 Good for you, Ron. Good for you, Ron.

]]> By: Ron http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/17/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58060 Ron Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:58:23 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58060 To me marriage, as the Mormon faith believes and practices it, is a very sacred and spiritual ceremony, which cannot be duplicated in a public ceremony. There is no way that I would want to have a "civil" ceremony first. I think it is the UK Mormons who are missing out, not the American Mormons. By the way, my parents could not attend my wedding and didn't even come to the temple on my wedding day,even though they were Mormons, they weren't living the standards required. That was disappointing, but my wife and I would not have it any other way and we have never regretted it. You can do all of the frills, beauty, and public show at the reception. But the actual wedding itself is one of the most sacred and spiritual thing you can do on this earth. To me marriage, as the Mormon faith believes and practices it, is a very sacred and spiritual ceremony, which cannot be duplicated in a public ceremony. There is no way that I would want to have a “civil” ceremony first. I think it is the UK Mormons who are missing out, not the American Mormons. By the way, my parents could not attend my wedding and didn’t even come to the temple on my wedding day,even though they were Mormons, they weren’t living the standards required. That was disappointing, but my wife and I would not have it any other way and we have never regretted it. You can do all of the frills, beauty, and public show at the reception. But the actual wedding itself is one of the most sacred and spiritual thing you can do on this earth.

]]> By: Marie http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/17/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58059 Marie Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:53:50 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58059 When I lived in the UK one of the ladies in my ward was a RE teacher at one of the local schools. I wonder how many other Mormon RE teachers there are in the UK? I also wonder how her (and her students) experience differed from that of other RE teachers and students. When I lived in the UK one of the ladies in my ward was a RE teacher at one of the local schools. I wonder how many other Mormon RE teachers there are in the UK? I also wonder how her (and her students) experience differed from that of other RE teachers and students.

]]> By: bbell http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/17/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58058 bbell Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:44:01 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58058 On my mission in South Africa the English and Afrikaans speaking schools had RE. SA in the early 1990's had a fervent version of C belief that reminds me of the US South. The LDS school kids would regularly tell me that they were being harrassed by both students and teachers during RE. On my mission in South Africa the English and Afrikaans speaking schools had RE. SA in the early 1990’s had a fervent version of C belief that reminds me of the US South.

The LDS school kids would regularly tell me that they were being harrassed by both students and teachers during RE.

]]> By: Robb Cundick http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/17/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58057 Robb Cundick Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:50:57 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/the-experience-of-mormon-children-in-english-school-based-religious-education-and-worship/#comment-58057 I found this of interest because I spent two years in British schools in my youth. I don't remember having any religious education classes; perhaps those are taught at a different age (I was there for the equivalent of 6th and 7th grades). What I do remember are the morning assemblies which consisted of a hymn and a prayer read from a Church of England prayer book. These are very fond memories. Most of all I enjoyed singing the hymns, mingling my voice with those wonderful English accents. The prayers seemed pretty bland when read from a book, which is of course far different from what I was/am used to, but they did not make me uncomfortable. I loved theses assemblies. They were a great way to start the day and although I know such a thing is not possible in America I have often wished it was. It didn't matter to me that the assemblies weren't "Mormon." "Christian" was just fine with me. I found this of interest because I spent two years in British schools in my youth. I don’t remember having any religious education classes; perhaps those are taught at a different age (I was there for the equivalent of 6th and 7th grades).

What I do remember are the morning assemblies which consisted of a hymn and a prayer read from a Church of England prayer book. These are very fond memories. Most of all I enjoyed singing the hymns, mingling my voice with those wonderful English accents. The prayers seemed pretty bland when read from a book, which is of course far different from what I was/am used to, but they did not make me uncomfortable.

I loved theses assemblies. They were a great way to start the day and although I know such a thing is not possible in America I have often wished it was. It didn’t matter to me that the assemblies weren’t “Mormon.” “Christian” was just fine with me.

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