Comments on: Surrogates for the earliest Mormons http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/26/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/ A Mormon Blog Tue, 14 Feb 2012 20:31:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: john f. http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/26/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86313 Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:59:30 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86313 Perhaps the United Brethren or other Apostolic Restorationists such as Sidney Rigdon’s disciples.

]]> By: sister blah 2 http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/26/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86312 Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:58:16 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86312 Haha, well how is an untrained, non-contemporary eye like mine supposed to tell the difference between dirty hippies wearing suits and clean cut kids in a folk band? Video I’ve seen of the Beatles and other bands shows them in nice suits when they were doing TV appearances. Sigh. Too confusing for my generation! :-)

]]> By: Clair http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/26/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86311 Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:40:45 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86311 Dirty hippies? That must be with tongue in cheek, oh young one. Those could be white shirts and ties they are wearing. They are a folk band and sing folk songs – the musical equivalent of Nibley’s Approaching Zion, as you rightly perceive. And, yes, the lead singer, voice and all, was the object of teenage crushes back in the day.

]]> By: sister blah 2 http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/26/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86310 Sun, 27 Apr 2008 16:50:28 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86310 #8 Clair, that’s a great clip. Oh the irony that dirty hippies could rock out so aptly about the Saints striving for Zion in Nauvoo and Utah! I don’t think I’ve ever heard of this band before (the song predates my birth by quite a bit but still)–that lead singer’s voice is fantastic.

]]> By: Bruce V Chiarelli http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/26/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86309 Sat, 26 Apr 2008 22:07:04 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86309 Herald House bookstore has an interesting book on other groups, called Divergent Paths of the Restoration. It tries more to be a reference than a readable history, but as such, it’s very comprehensive and well-balanced. The author deals quite a bit with the tiny splinter groups that went the way of the nineteenth century and aren’t covered anywhere else.

]]> By: Christopher http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/26/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86308 Sat, 26 Apr 2008 21:09:21 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86308 I’m with J. on early American Methodists, 1780-1820 and also Primitive and Reformed Methodists 1810-1840. At least that’s where I’d look for Mormonism circa 1830-1833. Many important converts and early Mormon leaders come from versions of Methodism that yearned for the primitive church (including BY and JT) and embraced charismatic religion in ways strikingly similar to early Mormonism.

Chris (#7), Sam’s right. Vogel’s book is rather poor. The “Seekers” are difficult study because the group has been constructed after-the-fact by historians. “Seekers” as we construct the term today, included individuals seeking “true religion.” Because of the subjectivity of that quest and what they sought, it is difficult to study them collectively. Rather, the groups that seekers were drawn to and that gave some collective expression to their seeking, like Reformed Methodism and Reformed Baptists are perhaps more useful.

]]> By: Ann http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/26/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86307 Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:25:49 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86307 Sam, if you’re interested in the different dissenting groups, get the book “Scattering the Saints.” John was co-editor of the book, and it was absolutely fascinating.

It was such a trip to read about a Mormon succession crisis that didn’t mention anywhere the words “Brigham Young.”

]]> By: Sam MB http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/26/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86306 Sat, 26 Apr 2008 19:45:16 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86306 Munster Anabaptists are a fascinating antecedent that a majority of evangelicals believed was the actual antecedent of Mormonism (Quinn’s article seems to miss entirely how common this comparison was in antebellum America). THere were some who said they could predict how Smith would behave by reading accounts of the Anabaptists.

Vogel’s book isn’t as good as it’s billed to be, unfortunately.

As for John Hamer’s useful comment, a fundamental question elided by it is whether late remnants or near contemporaries are more reliable. How do the constructed memories of such remnants differ? Are the fundamental continuities greater among antebellums than among Latter Day Saints over almost two centuries?

Also, John, this model of different dissenting groups as fossils of different phases of church development implies a more linear evolutionary model than I think the sources would support. That said, I love to hear the stories about the different dissenting groups, so keep them coming.

]]> By: Clair http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/26/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86305 Sat, 26 Apr 2008 19:13:05 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86305 #7. It is definitely the Seekers. “Just leave us alone.”

http://youtube.com/watch?v=g5pvpIvz5YQ&feature=related

]]> By: Chris http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/26/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86304 Sat, 26 Apr 2008 17:31:28 +0000 http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/surrogates-for-the-earliest-mormons/#comment-86304 The Anabaptists of Munster…

And the Seekers.

The former are remarkably similar in very many ways. Though there’s no real genetic relationship, there are many respects in which they reacted to the same kinds of circumstances in the same ways. (There’s a fairly significant quantity of literature comparing them with Mormons, including pieces by Quinn, McCue [I think?], and Forsberg.)

The latter is a group proposed by Dan Vogel as a possible genetic ancestor to Mormonism. I’ve not read his book on them yet, but the bits I’ve heard sound more promising than the Campbellites.

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