The Next Step

Stop me if this sounds familiar. I’m indebted to the always-handy BYU 100 Hour Board, as well as the LDS Church History site’s exhibit on Primary.

You’re plunked into Nursery at around 18 mos., where you remain for the next year-and-a-half, with playtime and decidedly un-Waldorfy instruction. Once upon a time we’d call those Nursery kids “Rainbows.” At Age 3 you become a Sunbeam (in days of yore, a “Moonbeam”). At Age 4 you enter CTR (though they used to be called Sunbeams). Age 5 — CTR (previously, Stars). Age 6 — CTR (formerly Rainbows too. hmm.). Age 7 — CTR still (though previously they had all kinds of cool names for this age, from CTR Pilots to Co-Pilots to Targeteers). Age 8 — Valiant (similarly these used to be called Targeteers and Pilots and Beacons).

At age 9, the gender separations begin. Boys and girls are both (boringly) called Valiants today, but not too too long ago they were called, respectively, Hatchets/Trail Builders/Blazers and Larks/Gaynotes/Home Builders/Merry Misses. At age 10, they’re all Valiants again (boys were Trekkers, Wagon Wheels and Trail Builders, while girls were Bluebirds, Lihomas, Hearths and Merry Misses). Age 11 shows no change (but you used to have cool names like Arrows and Guides for boys, or the catchy “Merrihands” for girls). At Age 12, primary ends — though in the past, girls continued on for two more years, as Mi-kan-wees or others.

Boys become Deacons. At 14, Teachers. At 16, Priests. At 18, Elders. Each new class is marked by a priesthood ordinance, whether in terms of ordaining to the Aaronic or Melchizedek Priesthood, or by a setting apart.

Girls become Beehives. At 14, Mia Maids. At 16, Laurels. At 18, Sisters (in the RS). Each new class is marked by a welcome and various certificates and medallions.

At 19, Elders serve missions. Before embarking, Elders receive their endowment and their temple garments. At 21, Sisters can do likewise. Upon return from those missions, insh’allah, Elders and Sisters get married and are sealed in the Temple, entering into the New and Everlasting Covenant. This represents the most holy ordinance of our Church (please spare us discussions of C&EMS or 2nd Anointings, people — that’s what New Cool Thang is for).

Then what?

For Sisters, there are no new steps. Relief Society is the end of the road, in terms of how your time is spent on Sundays. For Elders, there’s one possible step — being ordained High Priest — but technically at least, that’s not based on age, experience or anything other than being called to a position that requires a High Priest.

To what extent can we trace young adult inactivity rates to the absence of programs and sequentially-ordered groups starting at age 18?

I admit that I sometimes feel rudderless in Elder’s Quorum, Elder McConkie’s wonderful talk notwithstanding. There are weekly meetings and cleaning committees and ward basketball, but in terms of Church structure I have the distinct impression that I’m waiting in some bus terminal. At times it feels like a bullpen, with all of us waiting–waiting– to be called up to the Big Leagues, as it were. I’m sure, though, that if the time came for me to become a High Priest that those feelings of being a bit adrift would continue in some respect.

Similarly, some female friends of mine have conveyed feelings of feeling “lost” in Relief Society, not knowing what they’re supposed to do with themselves and wondering (sometimes aloud, channeling Peggy Lee), “is that all there is?”

It could be a legitimate question. In terms of personal development, opportunities to serve, growth in the Gospel, and in other meaningful ways the answer is, “of course there is more. Your schedule is booked through eternity with things for you to do and learn.” But in terms of Church structure, that’s really all there is.

It’s presumptuous of me to suggest that the Church needs to reorganize Relief Society and Elder’s Quorum (and possibly Sunday School and High Priests) in order to provide more age-based grouping or artificial dividing lines. I certainly don’t want to artificially create OT Level XII if it will serve no purpose and be a headache. But I think there’s some evidence that we need something, especially for younger adults, to keep them from feeling like they’ve been dumped into an ecclesiastical holding pen. Some may say that this structure already exists, in the form of YSA wards and branches. To me this misses on two crucial fronts: first, what of the young marrieds, and second, it places the YSAs in a completely isolated environment rather than having everyone intermix for Sacrament Meeting at least.

So, the question remains for me, and for the Church institutionally: what’s the next step?

Comments

  1. I say, bring back the gaynotes!

    Or we could consider achieving levels, as do our masonic brothers.

  2. Second Anointing.

  3. I think you’re missing the obvious, Steve.

    Clearly the next step is blogging.

  4. Nursery again. It’s a circle of life thing.

  5. John Mansfield says:

    That’s what graduation is all about: the initiate has passed through all the levels of preparation and is now able to go on with directing her own life. The next step? Be an adult.

  6. I think John has hit the nail on the head.

    The next step is any or all of: raising children, serving the community, developing your talents, researching your ancestors, attending and increasing your understanding of the temple, becoming a well-read individual, etc.

    I’m currently teaching Primary, but I like being in Elder’s Quorum and fully intend on staying there until I’m old and wrinkled and some Bishop takes pity on me and makes me (against my will) a High Priest.

  7. Latter-day Guy says:

    Death. It just takes a while.

  8. Randy B. says:

    “To what extent can we trace young adult inactivity rates to the absence of programs and sequentially-ordered groups starting at age 18?”

    A couple years back, I was at a leadership meeting where an Area Authority was discussing inactivity rates, complete with all sorts of data, charts and graphs.

    To my surprise, the biggest drop off from activity to inactivity was from Primary to YM/YW, not from YW/YM to RS/EQ. He explained this as a result of kids achieving some level of independence at age 12. That is, parents can easily drag their Primary-aged kids to church, while this becomes harder with tweens.

    This is not to say, I suppose, that the age-based structure doesn’t help mitigate the problem. Only that pointing to the transition from Primary to YM/YW as an example of where we are succeeding needs to be qualified somewhat.

  9. The next step is to forget about all outward marks of achievement and love our neigbors as ourselves without regard to age, sex, income, or odor, and whether they are members or nonmembers, active or inactive, friends or enemies, or even apostles or apostates.

  10. The next step is splitting Sunday school into different levels. A) Milk (currently called Gospel Doctrine) where we continue to whiz (pun intended) through the scriptures every four years and (including 2 40 minute periods to study Isaiah every 4 years) and B) Meat (new) where we take serious Christ commands to study the words of Isaiah.

  11. I would love to be a level 14 archelder (preferably if the advancement came with a sword +3 damage against anti-Mormons – I would name it, “schmoe-hammer”).

  12. Steve Evans says:

    J., if we equip you with an Apron of Power I think that adds +2 damage (but -3 charisma).

    Re: graduation — that’s well and good. Essentially you’re saying to those people who don’t know what’s next, “suck it up.” That’s a perfectly valid reply, and one I suspect is true, but not particularly helpful in terms of integration.

    Randy — that’s really interesting stuff.

  13. Mark B. says:

    Did M-Men and Gleaners increase retention levels back in the days they had such things? And how about the Master M-Men and the Golden Gleaners?

    Who knows? We need data! DATA!!

  14. sister blah 2 says:

    Some may say that this structure already exists, in the form of YSA wards and branches. To me this misses on two crucial fronts: first, what of the young marrieds, and second, it places the YSAs in a completely isolated environment rather than having everyone intermix for Sacrament Meeting at least.

    I agree. To elaborate a bit, the problem I see with isolation is that without primary and YM/YW, the church really has very, very few callings in a ward. Without opportunities to serve, it ends up being just sitting through 3 hr block as a passive blob, very boring and, more deeply, missing out on the blessings of service. Putting 18-year-olds fresh out of high school straight into teaching sunbeams and other useful things would, I think, be very helpful for welcoming people to adulthood and showing we are willing to truly welcome them to that stature by giving them actual responsibility. #5,6 are points well taken, but without putting people in positions to serve, and the individuals don’t have dependents yet, it’s not entirely their fault they’re not taking this next step–we’re not offering it. I don’t know how this would work say in Provo, where you have huge concentrations of YSAs who probably can’t be nicely absorbed into the primary callings of the surrounding community.

    (OT funny story relating to my point above about 3hr block—my aunt had been complaining to her husband for years that the 3-hr block was mind-numbing, but he didn’t believe her; he’d been in bishoprics since forever, then stake president, etc. The first Sunday after they released him from SP, and for the first time in decades he actually sat through the 3-hr block instead of bustling around doing interviews, he spent the whole drive home saying mea culpas to my aunt, finally agreeing with her how horribly boring it was. heh)

  15. Kevinf says:

    Ages ago, while still living in the jello belt, my wife and I were married while still in college. They divided up the town into four quadrants, and we had the option of going to our geographical young married ward. It actually was kind of cool, no primary, a handful of infants, no nursery, no youth programs. We got to practice being adults, as John Mansfield suggested, before we actually moved off into real family wards. Graduation from college or children over 2 years old were the markers for moving on.

    It was a great experience, and we mad e friends there that have lasted throughout our adult lives. But it was still a little less than full reality. We had no real inactives, our chief callings were to staff an EQ and RS, with a couple of Sunday School classes, and that waa about it. But it was great training, and after my wife and I both graduated from college, we took off the training wheels, and joined a real ward.

    But my current perspective is that regular family wards need those young couples to help maintain vitality. Outside the Wasatch corridor, it would be hard to take the young marrieds away from wards that otherwise are dwindling in numbers in the urban and older suburban neighborhoods, and they’ll soon have jobs and move into those further out new suburbs with their new mortgages.

    Steve, thanks for remembering (?) all those old names. You probably don’t remember the bandoleers. My wife still has hers somewhere, with all the little plastic trinkets glued on. Mine went somewhere with my cub scout shirt, too many years ago to even think about. I miss being a Top Pilot.

  16. Good points, sister blah. The wards I have lived tend to move young marrieds straight into primary or working with the youth and have the demographics where that’s possible.

    Here’s my solution:

    Have a huge public relations committee whose primary focus is community service and perhaps (gasp!) ecumenical outreach.

  17. For someone who has spent little time in areas where the Church is big enough to have a YSA units or separate Elder’s Quorum & HP meetings, discussing this as an issue sounds a little luxurious.

    My wife is very active with her stake calling, attending other units one or two Sundays a month, leaving me to attend HP with our pre-nursery age daughter, who, I found out last week is younger than some of the HP’s GREAT-grandchildren. It certainly doesn’t feel like we have been ‘advanced’ and on most Sundays the raucous holding pen sounds more inviting than the somber seriousness of the HP.

    On the upside, my HT companion is one of the most impressive 17 year olds I have ever met.

    But by the time you are returned from your mission, it is time to start taking a little ownership of your relationship with the institution. I think those that are waiting for a formal arraignment to meet the perceived special needs at their particular stage in life are probably asking too much. There are simply too many things that need done to be sitting around waiting for you pre-packaged, age and socially appropriate cohort to be delivered. Either do it yourself, informally, or figure out why you think someone else should do it for you and then do it yourself anyway.

    Other than that, the risk is that a unit would become so compartmentalized as to function a a bunch of sub-groups who happen to meet in the same building at the same time.

  18. Mark B. says:

    One minor note, kevinf.

    You meant bandlos, not bandoleers.

    Bandoleers are those belts of .50 caliber ammunition you wore slung across your chest while toting your machine gun to mutual.

  19. Kevinf says:

    Mark,

    Yikes! Bandlos, or bandelos, you are right! But they did have those cool little plastic hatchets on them!

  20. #14

    I was an 18 yr old Sunbeam teacher, we had a blast in that class. I was also a 19 yr old Sunbeam teacher on my mission. I had three boys, who insisted on signing “Master the Tempest is Raging” every Sunday, in French no less. After a few months the three of them sang it in Sacrament meeting, all four verses flawlessly, had the whole congregation in tears.

  21. Targeteers, I forgot about that. I thought that after you made it into EQ you kept tabs on your progress via number of wives.

  22. Nora Ray says:

    RE #8 There is a problem with the youth groups in so far as the 12-14 year olds can’t attend dances or overnight youth conferences. Many Stake level activities out here in the mission field leave those younger ones out. In fact, I was told a couple of years ago, when I was the world’s oldest YW President, that SL had told the Stake to focus on the older youth and not worry too much about the younger ones. Problem is, schools and other churches are having dances for that age group and that is the age when many start the “teenage rebellion” period. They need to be gathered in so that they can feel part of YM/YW immediately instead of left to hang for two years. Fortunately our Stake seems to be moving in this direction now so maybe the SL guidance has changed.

  23. #16

    Have a huge public relations committee whose primary focus is community service and perhaps (gasp!) ecumenical outreach.

    I love that idea. Some might argue that we have subcommittees already for this, but forming a “service to the community” committee or task force, that’s an idea I can get behind.

    Not sure we couldn’t just implement this locally, ad hoc. I like it.

  24. I sometimes actually wish that the church would just leave me alone and let me attend EQ and GD. I was in YM for years and never even knew who the EQ pres. was. After that, I’ve always been teaching either in EQ or SS or both. If you find yourself sitting in EQ wondering what the next step is, count your blessings, ’cause someone else is doing all the work.

  25. Steve,

    You hit the nail right on the head. Church meetings are boring. As adults, we still need structure and ways to advance. I am in my early thirties, married with kids, and already a high priest. What else is there to look forward to? We do need advanced classes, assignments, etc. to keep motivated. I think one simple solution would be to provide early morning Institute classes to adults alongside the Seminary classes offered to the high school students at the stake centers (outside Utah). What about Duty to God programs for Elders and High Priests, or similar programs for the women? We succeed when we’re challenged. That challenge needs to be more than just cramming our schedules with regular church meetings, presidency meetings, planning meetings, stake meetings, home teaching visits, FHE, and temple dates.

  26. Randall, I do think there are plenty of things to challenge us, but not so much in terms of institutional structure (excluding ad hoc local stuff). I’d love to see the EQ try and obtain their Duty to God awards, or the RS get their YW medallions again. Awesome.

  27. I think they did have an offical Relief Society goal setting program available a few years back. Can’t recall the details though.

  28. BeckySueby says:

    Relief Society has the “Pursuit of Excellence” program. That may be what you are thinking of Jami. There is an actual little booklet that used to be passed out.
    Where I am the stake RS leaders set the goals for the year – things like, reading the Ensign every month, internalizing each ‘scripture of the month,’ reading the lessons in the manual twice a month, etc. Then sometime b/f the stake women’s conference data from each ward is collected and those who completed the requirements are awarded a certificate and some type of gift – usually a book I think.
    It is not stressed, at least not in my neck of the woods. There aren’t usually reminders through out the year and in my experience it is usually pursued by the older sisters.
    Of course, considering that I’ve been in nursery for the past two years (very happily so) I may not be that up-to-date w/ my info.

  29. Randall says:

    This is the original Randall. New Randall: Don’t confuse people by poaching my handle :)

    We can learn much by examining activity of our brothers and sisters in mega box-store Christian churches. While their “Sacrament Meeting” is held in an arena-type setting, the rest of their meetings are based on small self-selected study groups. The church sponsors them and often provides a space, but people choose groups based on interest and cohort.

    Also, they make much better usage of their space Mon-Sat. The church campuses function as child-care centers, coffee shops, charity centers, etc. Something is happening every day and people attend what interests them.

    In this way, they create an atmosphere that is intimate in its gargantuanness.

    That, and they have much better music.

  30. Norbert says:

    I’m in favor of having Feats of Manly Strength become a more prominent part of priesthood meeting. Beyond that, I’m out of ideas.

  31. Euclid says:

    I actually was just having some thoughts about this issue myself, as I have been sitting through some seriously underwhelming Gospel Doctrine lessons lately (“Who was Sam’s brother?” ARGH!).

    To remedy this, I thought it would be interesting when I have my OWN Sunday School to try breaking GD down into small groups of 6-8 and have those groups be individually responsible for their lessons (rotate teachers among the group possibly). Small enough that people missing will be noticed, small enough for more people to feel safe commenting, asking real questions, and in general feeling more “challenged” at church.

    I realize there are numerous logistical challenges to this concept, but I think it would solve at least a few issues at least I am currently noticing…

  32. Thought provoking thanks Steve. Lots of fun comments. Please no thank you. I really don’t want my spiritual development to be correlated like the rest of my life is. I do like #10 ed42 idea of different level Sunday School classes.

    # 8 Randy B. Wow! That is what I have thought for a long time. It is nice to see that now I have stats to back me up. Years ago when they consolidated the meeting schedule as a teen I thought, “Great! they got rid of Jr. SS. Now my children won’t have to suffer like we did.”

    What really happened was they replaced fun Primary with 2 hours of torture called Jr SS. The kids get turned off before they are old enough to gain a testimony. This is why we as a church can’t retain the younger generation. A complete overhaul I say.

    I say they take Primary back to being Primary and put it on Wednesday evening with the rest of the Youth programs. Add a great adult gospel study class. This way we can have 2 hour church on Sunday. If needed combine wards for more fun and variety for kids and adults alike.

    I also like #16 William Morris idea about service. I think that another reason why we as a church are not growing is that our church has become a big bureaucratic machine that serves itself too much.

  33. queuno says:

    A problem, though, is that in certain areas, there are so many members that there is little meaningful service opportunity, ***outside*** of one-off assignments and home teaching.

    About 40% of my married life has been spent without a calling (except HT), or else serving as a super-deputy-assistant-meetinghouse-librarian (with a shift every other month on a Thursday). During that time, maybe I’d get a teaching assigment for EQ once every 6 months.

    Now, my personal worship never lagged. DW and I continued to attend the temple, our meetings, and study the scriptures. But it got easy sometimes to let work call me in on a Sunday for an emergency.

    In recent years, I’ve had callings with more responsibility (sometimes) — but in some cases, those were weekday callings, not Sunday callings.

  34. queuno says:

    I say they take Primary back to being Primary and put it on Wednesday evening with the rest of the Youth programs. Add a great adult gospel study class. This way we can have 2 hour church on Sunday. If needed combine wards for more fun and variety for kids and adults alike.

    Heavens no. That interferes with every other worthwhile activity the children could be doing. Keep Primary on Sunday, and move YM/YW to every other week.

  35. Yes, BeckySueby, that’s it!

    Euclid, every time I read a comment from you I think, “Hm, that’s an interesting angle.”

  36. Dear Steve,
    Thank you for the thoughtful blog and obvious care that you have the those aged 18-30. I assure you that the problem of retaining this age group is very important to the leaders of the Church. I am new to blogging in general, so if I overstep my bounds, if someone will correct me, I’d be grateful.

    I would like to give some insight as someone in this age group. While I appreciate the fervor with which it is suggested to help this age group, I know that I, and many of my friends would find it severely condescending to invent all of this little groups and cliques. I rather like the whole, “You’re and adult now, act like one.” I do not find church boring at all. Indeed, I do find family wards incredibly boring now. I enjoy having a quiet sacrament time, I enjoy the talks, I enjoy the lessons. This was not always so. I used to be bored, with even our single’s wards lessons. But then I realized that it was my responsibility to help the class, to help the teacher to teach a great lesson. Even the newest member can teach a great lesson in our ward because all of the members are willing to help out the lesson be better. The more humble the teacher, the better. In fact, in recent history, the worst lesson we’ve had recently was a stake leader who began by quoting a 35 year old talk from a BYU professor talking about how horrible marriages were in becoming equitable and were less Authoritarian than they used to be. It was the Elder’s Quorum that was upset with this.

    Our ward has inactives that try and fellowship and bring back to church. And while we have none of the problems associated with children, I feel every bit of an adult as anyone else in the church. Because our ward lacks the inherent family setup for support, the Elder’s Quorum and Bishopric must support many in the Ward, people we care for as brother’s in the gospel, but not necessarily family members. There is enough to do and enough not getting done. I fear adding more groups and whatever would just dilute our focus.

    One entity that is supposed to help fill this void is insitute. While there are some qualified individuals and eladers, there are many more unqualified to provide a stimulating environment where people can learn. And many insitutes lack the activities to keep people interested.

    What I think would help this age group more than anyone else is leaders teaching people when they are younger about realistic expectations.

  37. Why is it that we expect the Church to provide an adult structure that is significantly different than one society provides?

    After you graduate from college and get a new job, what more is there to look forward to, professionally? Another job? Maybe grad school? Money? There are equivalent things in the Church.

    (I’m guilty of this myself. I think, “Well, life is hard right now, I’ll find solace at Church, but why should I expect that? The organizational Church is just one facet of the spiritual development I need.”)

    NOYDMB provides an interesting thought that I’ve heard before from a lot of seasoned leaders — that having more groups and more programs and more designations is actually hurting the Church’s ability to minister to individuals and families.

  38. “Why is it that we expect the Church to provide an adult structure that is significantly different than one society provides?”

    Because the world is lone and dreary, and the Church is the Kingdom of God.

  39. Queuno #33 No this would work because Primary used to be cub scouts and what they do now for achievements for girls. The under 8 group could have fun activities too. The idea behind Primary was not to bore the kids into inactivity, but to teach them that the Gospel and church is fun. In the southeastern US the kid world shuts down for Wednesday Church Night. School takes it easy on homework, soccer practices are scheduled on other nights etc…

  40. In our area they either need to leave the ward’s big or simplify big time. I have only 2 callings (Sunbeams and cubs) and I am quite the slacker. I have a friend with 4 callings (achievements, ward bullentin, sunday primary assignment and an enrichment job). I haven’t had a calling that did not involve doing Sunday service in 22 years. I tell you what, I need a day of rest!

  41. Steve,
    I fully agree that any church must do better than a govt society in helping it’s members.

    The disagreements posted so far on this blog appear to be about Philosophy, how they problem is solved. Should the Church (or the gov’t) prescribe everything that must be done (from the top down). Are local leaders so uncaring or unaware, that they are not making goals with individuals, supporting the EQ/RS, Activities and FHE committees so that the YSA’s are finding a place? Must the church control everything??? Is a church made better with more oversight from the top, or less?

    I’d rather the church teach us principles about love and service (to the adults) and let them come up with ideas about specific programs that local leaders can suggest.

    Quite frankly, I’m tired of the “Wasatch Front” Church (Which is differnent than the LDS Church) saying exactly HOW an Insitute Activity needs to occur. There’s a wide variety of people in the church and local leaders must be looking for ways to encourage, challenge, and uplift their own local members without having to be compelled from Salt Lake. Sure, it may not be how the Provo wards do it, but it works for us.

  42. NOYDMB: “I’d rather the church teach us principles about love and service (to the adults) and let them come up with ideas about specific programs that local leaders can suggest.”

    I’d love that, too, but that would mean turning the clock back to the 1950s before Pres. Lee. Alas, my Honda Odyssey does not sport a flux capacitor.

  43. Sterling says:

    Have you guys read _Soul Searching: The Religious and Spiritual Lives of American Teenagers_ by Christian Smith? Near the end of his book he has several recommendations for parents and religious leaders who work with teens. He says we should get parents more involved in church work with teens, not be afraid to really teach teens at church, work harder to articulate our faith to teens, challenge the individualism that is often driving the life choices of teens, make sure teens can talk about the uniqueness of Mormonism without putting down other religions, help them understand why Mormon morality matters in a world where anything goes, forge connections between teens and ordinary adults at church, help them adopt religious practices in both their personal and public lives, help teens to balance the time they spend exposed to the influences of school and the media with the time they spend in religious practices, and help teens ask themselves whether they are religiously active because it helps them become healthy and good citizens or because it helps them to reach religious goals. Do these ideas sound good to all of you? And to what extent do they also apply to people in their early 20s?

  44. queuno says:
  45. queuno says:

    Queuno #33 No this would work because Primary used to be cub scouts and what they do now for achievements for girls. The under 8 group could have fun activities too. The idea behind Primary was not to bore the kids into inactivity, but to teach them that the Gospel and church is fun. In the southeastern US the kid world shuts down for Wednesday Church Night. School takes it easy on homework, soccer practices are scheduled on other nights etc…

    I live in such a community, where everything shuts down on Wednesday night. But then my daughter goes to her maybe-once-a-month Achievement Day, walks away bored (and of course, the Cubs are blowing up stuff and ripping milk cartons into little pieces), and she desperately hopes YW is better…

    Most times she goes to AD, it would have better if she’d just stayed later after soccer practice to work on something else…

    I actually think that our primaries do a decent job. It’s our mid-week activities for youth and primary-age that are lacking. But … I’m not aspiring to any particular calling, no I’m not…

  46. Norbert says:

    Steve, dude: You drive a Honda Odyssey and you’re wondering what the next step is?

  47. Sam Kitterman says:

    And what about the other end, i.e., where your children are grown and you/your spouse are now “empty nesters”. We’re still both working and retirement is another 12 to 15 years away so serving “senior missions” is not somthing to comtemplate right now. And sitting in meetings with the focus being more about raising and teaching our children (local, stake or general conference, take your pick) becomes a non sequitur for us.
    And after having been called to teach the High Priests quorum without being set apart as a High Priest (I was told they needed a dynamic teacher who would keep them awake), I’ve seen that future from the other side of the veil and have little desire to return…..

    And so, what about those in our shoes?

  48. sister blah 2 says:

    #38, 42–Steve, dude, you’re on a roll, hi-larious. LX, EX, or Touring? Nav? Screens for the kiddies? Do tell.
    #44–queuno, I see now that we are kindred spirits, for PhD comics do truly rock.

  49. Moonbeams, Merrihands and stars?

    Sounds like a bad episode of Rainbow Bright to me!

    Before I joined the Church, I was in a Baptist church that didn’t have any kind of classes for teenage girls. Coming into Young Womens was really refreshing. It was nice to finally be able to be in classes separate from 10 year old boys.

    But the divisions created by the classes seem a bit foolish. Take for instance the activities the Young Men get to do–helping people move, chopping wood for camp outs, paintball. And yet, the Young Women were never asked if they wanted to participate. And personally I’d rather do any one of those things than scrapbooking, cooking, or making aprons.

    So, in my humble grumble of an opinion, I’d rather see less division, not more. I’d hate to see where else we would take it.

  50. I was excited to see a 100 Hour Board reference! Thanks, Steve.

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 9,831 other followers