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	<title>Comments on: MHA Sacramento 2008 Open Thread</title>
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	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/21/mha-sacramento-2008-open-thread/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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		<title>By: billh</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/21/mha-sacramento-2008-open-thread/#comment-24711</link>
		<dc:creator>billh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 02:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3806#comment-24711</guid>
		<description>Just found this blogsite today, 6/8/08. Interesting comments. If you want some information about 20th century church affairs in California, pick up a copy of CALIFORNIA SAINTS, co-authored by Richard Cowan and myself, William Homer. Much of Elder Carmack&#039;s presentation can also be found there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just found this blogsite today, 6/8/08. Interesting comments. If you want some information about 20th century church affairs in California, pick up a copy of CALIFORNIA SAINTS, co-authored by Richard Cowan and myself, William Homer. Much of Elder Carmack&#8217;s presentation can also be found there.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/21/mha-sacramento-2008-open-thread/#comment-24783</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 17:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>An excellent conference all-around. It was fun to meet in person some of the BCCers, including Sam, Kevin, and Kristine, and to see Stapely again. Thanks for the write-up on the several sessions, Kevin.

Chris, it was good to meet you and briefly chat. Thanks for the detailed notes on the session.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An excellent conference all-around. It was fun to meet in person some of the BCCers, including Sam, Kevin, and Kristine, and to see Stapely again. Thanks for the write-up on the several sessions, Kevin.</p>
<p>Chris, it was good to meet you and briefly chat. Thanks for the detailed notes on the session.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/21/mha-sacramento-2008-open-thread/#comment-24782</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 17:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Chris: Thanks for the nice summary of our session. It was great to meet you later that day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris: Thanks for the nice summary of our session. It was great to meet you later that day.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/21/mha-sacramento-2008-open-thread/#comment-24781</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 08:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3806#comment-24781</guid>
		<description>I only actually ended up attending a couple sessions.  I really wanted to go the the Philip Jenkins one, but couldn&#039;t get myself out of bed that early.  So thanks, Kevin, for the thorough notes.  I enjoyed the sessions I did attend, and also enjoyed chatting with a few people from the blogs and boards.  I got to speak briefly with such luminaries as Christopher Jones and Jonathan Stapley, and talked at greater length with Sam Brown, a  couple fellas from the JS Papers project (Alex Smith seems like a great guy, BTW), and Mike Reed.

One of the sessions I attended, which I felt was fairly worthwhile, was the one about intersections and environmental influences.  Here are my notes on that session:

&lt;em&gt;Christopher C. Jones, “‘We Latter-day Saints Are Methodists’: Methodist Influences on Early Mormonism.”  MHA Conference, Sacramento, CA, 5/23/08.&lt;/em&gt;

Smith told a Methodist named Cartwright that the Methodists were the closest of all the sects to being right.

Mormon proselytism tended to be successful in regions where Methodism was strong.  An inordinate number of converts to early Mormonism came from the Methodists.  This was perhaps even more true in England than in the United States.  Former Methodists also dominated the early LDS hierarchy, with 8 of the original 12 apostles having been affiliated with the Methodists at some point prior to their appointment.

Methodists were drawn to Mormonism’s blending of the rational and the metaphysical.  Early Methodism included a similar tension.  Wesley, for example, spoke of healing coming by “medication and prayer”.

The earliest accounts of Joseph Smith’s First Vision essentially follow the format of a Methodist conversion narrative.  This is probably how both Joseph and those around him understood it.  No wonder, then, his surprise when the vision was condemned by a Methodist minister!

Distinctives of early Methodist conversion narratives:

1. They occur at times of crisis
2. They are the result of reflection on a sermon or Scripture
3. They sometimes come by praying in a different way than usual (in Smith’s case, by praying aloud for the first time)
4. They include an encounter with the devil (which frequently involves bodily convulsions and the inability to speak)
5. A fortuitously timed theophany or vision delivers the convert from the devil
6. The convert makes a decision to join a Methodist society

Each of these was true also of the First Vision.

&lt;em&gt;Benjamin E. Park, “‘The Defining Intellectual Influence’: Mormonism and Romanticism.”  Mormon History Association conference, Sacramento, CA&lt;/em&gt;

Romantics rebelled against Neoclassicism.

They rejected full reliance on reason, yearned for revelation and intimate relationship with the divine
JS was a Romantic, perhaps even more than he was a primitivist.

Romantics rejected methodical truth acquisition in favor of intuition and experience.

The yearned for transcendence: deification?  Argued for divine-human continuity.

Romantics tended to be anti-anthropomorphic; JS broke w/ this tradition.

Smith insisted upon the possibility of religious assurance.  Certainty of calling and election was central to his thought.  Romanticism also a quest for certainty?

&lt;em&gt;Joseph Darowski – “Schools of the Prophets: An Early American Tradition” MHA Conference, Sacramento, CA 5/23/2008.&lt;/em&gt;

Harvard and Yale were considered Schools of the Prophets.  They appealed to the OT as precedent.  Great Awakening revivalists sharply rebuked these universities for failing to even produce Christians, let alone prophets.

The Great Awakening&#039;s &quot;New Light&quot; ministers opened their own seminaries, which stressed conversion, ancient languages, and theology.  Hyrum apparently attended such a school.

The Mormon SoP followed some earlier Protestant patterns, while breaking with others.

For JS, the essence of a Zion society was equality before the Lord.  For this reason, he wanted to educate the Saints and opened a series of schools.  Given the way SoP was used as a generic term for ministerial training schools, the Kirtland SoP is perhaps less distinct than we might think from other early Mormon education efforts like the high school &amp; Nauvoo University.

The School of the Prophets included Holiness lifestyle requirements, Lectures of Faith, and language study.

But unlike Prot schools, there were also points of departure.  They met in the temple, made covenants, hoped for theophanies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I only actually ended up attending a couple sessions.  I really wanted to go the the Philip Jenkins one, but couldn&#8217;t get myself out of bed that early.  So thanks, Kevin, for the thorough notes.  I enjoyed the sessions I did attend, and also enjoyed chatting with a few people from the blogs and boards.  I got to speak briefly with such luminaries as Christopher Jones and Jonathan Stapley, and talked at greater length with Sam Brown, a  couple fellas from the JS Papers project (Alex Smith seems like a great guy, BTW), and Mike Reed.</p>
<p>One of the sessions I attended, which I felt was fairly worthwhile, was the one about intersections and environmental influences.  Here are my notes on that session:</p>
<p><em>Christopher C. Jones, “‘We Latter-day Saints Are Methodists’: Methodist Influences on Early Mormonism.”  MHA Conference, Sacramento, CA, 5/23/08.</em></p>
<p>Smith told a Methodist named Cartwright that the Methodists were the closest of all the sects to being right.</p>
<p>Mormon proselytism tended to be successful in regions where Methodism was strong.  An inordinate number of converts to early Mormonism came from the Methodists.  This was perhaps even more true in England than in the United States.  Former Methodists also dominated the early LDS hierarchy, with 8 of the original 12 apostles having been affiliated with the Methodists at some point prior to their appointment.</p>
<p>Methodists were drawn to Mormonism’s blending of the rational and the metaphysical.  Early Methodism included a similar tension.  Wesley, for example, spoke of healing coming by “medication and prayer”.</p>
<p>The earliest accounts of Joseph Smith’s First Vision essentially follow the format of a Methodist conversion narrative.  This is probably how both Joseph and those around him understood it.  No wonder, then, his surprise when the vision was condemned by a Methodist minister!</p>
<p>Distinctives of early Methodist conversion narratives:</p>
<p>1. They occur at times of crisis<br />
2. They are the result of reflection on a sermon or Scripture<br />
3. They sometimes come by praying in a different way than usual (in Smith’s case, by praying aloud for the first time)<br />
4. They include an encounter with the devil (which frequently involves bodily convulsions and the inability to speak)<br />
5. A fortuitously timed theophany or vision delivers the convert from the devil<br />
6. The convert makes a decision to join a Methodist society</p>
<p>Each of these was true also of the First Vision.</p>
<p><em>Benjamin E. Park, “‘The Defining Intellectual Influence’: Mormonism and Romanticism.”  Mormon History Association conference, Sacramento, CA</em></p>
<p>Romantics rebelled against Neoclassicism.</p>
<p>They rejected full reliance on reason, yearned for revelation and intimate relationship with the divine<br />
JS was a Romantic, perhaps even more than he was a primitivist.</p>
<p>Romantics rejected methodical truth acquisition in favor of intuition and experience.</p>
<p>The yearned for transcendence: deification?  Argued for divine-human continuity.</p>
<p>Romantics tended to be anti-anthropomorphic; JS broke w/ this tradition.</p>
<p>Smith insisted upon the possibility of religious assurance.  Certainty of calling and election was central to his thought.  Romanticism also a quest for certainty?</p>
<p><em>Joseph Darowski – “Schools of the Prophets: An Early American Tradition” MHA Conference, Sacramento, CA 5/23/2008.</em></p>
<p>Harvard and Yale were considered Schools of the Prophets.  They appealed to the OT as precedent.  Great Awakening revivalists sharply rebuked these universities for failing to even produce Christians, let alone prophets.</p>
<p>The Great Awakening&#8217;s &#8220;New Light&#8221; ministers opened their own seminaries, which stressed conversion, ancient languages, and theology.  Hyrum apparently attended such a school.</p>
<p>The Mormon SoP followed some earlier Protestant patterns, while breaking with others.</p>
<p>For JS, the essence of a Zion society was equality before the Lord.  For this reason, he wanted to educate the Saints and opened a series of schools.  Given the way SoP was used as a generic term for ministerial training schools, the Kirtland SoP is perhaps less distinct than we might think from other early Mormon education efforts like the high school &amp; Nauvoo University.</p>
<p>The School of the Prophets included Holiness lifestyle requirements, Lectures of Faith, and language study.</p>
<p>But unlike Prot schools, there were also points of departure.  They met in the temple, made covenants, hoped for theophanies.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Barney</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/21/mha-sacramento-2008-open-thread/#comment-24780</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Barney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 18:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3806#comment-24780</guid>
		<description>John, I&#039;m sorry we didn&#039;t connect; I would have loved to meet you.  I&#039;ll be at the Saturday session of Sunstone in August; otherwise I&#039;ll be back at MHA next year in Springfield, Illinois.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, I&#8217;m sorry we didn&#8217;t connect; I would have loved to meet you.  I&#8217;ll be at the Saturday session of Sunstone in August; otherwise I&#8217;ll be back at MHA next year in Springfield, Illinois.</p>
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		<title>By: John Hamer</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/21/mha-sacramento-2008-open-thread/#comment-24779</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hamer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 16:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3806#comment-24779</guid>
		<description>Kevin --- Great summary of a great conference.  I got to talk to a lot of BCC folks and other bloggernacle luminaries.  But every time I saw you, you were deep in conversation --- which is more than half the fun of attending these conferences.  Hope to talk to you next time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin &#8212; Great summary of a great conference.  I got to talk to a lot of BCC folks and other bloggernacle luminaries.  But every time I saw you, you were deep in conversation &#8212; which is more than half the fun of attending these conferences.  Hope to talk to you next time.</p>
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		<title>By: molly bennion</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/21/mha-sacramento-2008-open-thread/#comment-24778</link>
		<dc:creator>molly bennion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 03:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3806#comment-24778</guid>
		<description>Kevin did such a good job abstracting the MMM session and Jenkin&#039;s lecture.  Both also had excellent Q &amp; A sessions that were picked up well on the tapes available from MHA for $9 each.  Definitely worth purchasing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin did such a good job abstracting the MMM session and Jenkin&#8217;s lecture.  Both also had excellent Q &amp; A sessions that were picked up well on the tapes available from MHA for $9 each.  Definitely worth purchasing.</p>
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		<title>By: Edje</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/21/mha-sacramento-2008-open-thread/#comment-24777</link>
		<dc:creator>Edje</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 19:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3806#comment-24777</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the notes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the notes.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivan Wolfe</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/21/mha-sacramento-2008-open-thread/#comment-24776</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivan Wolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 13:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3806#comment-24776</guid>
		<description>Actually, every time I say &quot;Xian&quot; I kept thinking &quot;Xenu&quot; for some reason.  Wrong religion, though.

;-)

Thanks for the notes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, every time I say &#8220;Xian&#8221; I kept thinking &#8220;Xenu&#8221; for some reason.  Wrong religion, though.<br />
 <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Thanks for the notes.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Barney</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/21/mha-sacramento-2008-open-thread/#comment-24775</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Barney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 05:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3806#comment-24775</guid>
		<description>I ran into an old friend before the banquet, and so I invited her family to sit with me there.  There was a total of five of them.  When we walked in the banquet the tables were filling fast; we found one with only three people sitting at it, and three of us sat down, saving seats for the three still coming, leaving only one seat available at the table.

So Richard and Claudia Bushman ramble over (my friends used to live in NY and knew the Bushmans) and were going to sit in two of the empty seats, but we had to shush them away because they were saved.

We laughed about how that&#039;s probably the first time anyone had ever turned the Bushmans away from a table at an MHA event!  Normally you can&#039;t even get close to them for all the people hanging around their orbit.  My friend said I had made a huge sacrifice for sitting with her family.

I thought the whole thing was pretty funny.

Paul&#039;s talk on California Mormon architecture was really spectacular, with lots of pictures.  Great stuff.

And the reception after was really fun, with conversation with dear old--and new--friends.

An absolutely terrific time!

Next year the conference will be in Springfield, IL, so plan ahead now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I ran into an old friend before the banquet, and so I invited her family to sit with me there.  There was a total of five of them.  When we walked in the banquet the tables were filling fast; we found one with only three people sitting at it, and three of us sat down, saving seats for the three still coming, leaving only one seat available at the table.</p>
<p>So Richard and Claudia Bushman ramble over (my friends used to live in NY and knew the Bushmans) and were going to sit in two of the empty seats, but we had to shush them away because they were saved.</p>
<p>We laughed about how that&#8217;s probably the first time anyone had ever turned the Bushmans away from a table at an MHA event!  Normally you can&#8217;t even get close to them for all the people hanging around their orbit.  My friend said I had made a huge sacrifice for sitting with her family.</p>
<p>I thought the whole thing was pretty funny.</p>
<p>Paul&#8217;s talk on California Mormon architecture was really spectacular, with lots of pictures.  Great stuff.</p>
<p>And the reception after was really fun, with conversation with dear old&#8211;and new&#8211;friends.</p>
<p>An absolutely terrific time!</p>
<p>Next year the conference will be in Springfield, IL, so plan ahead now.</p>
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