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	<title>Comments on: Yes, Non-LDS Mormons Are Mormons</title>
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	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/07/15/yes-non-lds-mormons-are-mormons/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Margie Miller</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/07/15/yes-non-lds-mormons-are-mormons/#comment-95218</link>
		<dc:creator>Margie Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3998#comment-95218</guid>
		<description>&quot;Take a clue from the Community of Christ. No one around here knows what their new name is and can’t remember it if they try. It’s RLDS. Always been RLDS. Always gonna be RLDS. The name change was seen as what it was: a suckup to the evangelicals and only provided more ammunition for pointing and mocking.

I really beg to differ. Community of Christ had a couple of reasons for the name change but the most important one is that the new name better describes their goal and mission.

In 1998, I sent the president of the church a book I had recently read entitled &quot;Positioning&quot; which says the name says it all whether it&#039;s a product of an organization.

The author of this book illustrated his point by giving numerous examples of perfectly good products and organizations who had such a bad/confusing names that they failed to make an impact on the market. he also mentioned several dozen names that were a success because of their catchy or descriptive names.

I received an e-mail from that president thanking me for the book. He said he read it on board a plane on a trip to California.

It may have been influential in the re-naming of the church. Certainly a long cumbersome name does not lend itself to success.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Take a clue from the Community of Christ. No one around here knows what their new name is and can’t remember it if they try. It’s RLDS. Always been RLDS. Always gonna be RLDS. The name change was seen as what it was: a suckup to the evangelicals and only provided more ammunition for pointing and mocking.</p>
<p>I really beg to differ. Community of Christ had a couple of reasons for the name change but the most important one is that the new name better describes their goal and mission.</p>
<p>In 1998, I sent the president of the church a book I had recently read entitled &#8220;Positioning&#8221; which says the name says it all whether it&#8217;s a product of an organization.</p>
<p>The author of this book illustrated his point by giving numerous examples of perfectly good products and organizations who had such a bad/confusing names that they failed to make an impact on the market. he also mentioned several dozen names that were a success because of their catchy or descriptive names.</p>
<p>I received an e-mail from that president thanking me for the book. He said he read it on board a plane on a trip to California.</p>
<p>It may have been influential in the re-naming of the church. Certainly a long cumbersome name does not lend itself to success.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Nelson</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/07/15/yes-non-lds-mormons-are-mormons/#comment-95217</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 01:52:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3998#comment-95217</guid>
		<description>How about The Church of the Two Prepositional Phrases?  Mormons wouldn&#039;t have a problem with the name of their church if they had come up with something simple in the beginning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about The Church of the Two Prepositional Phrases?  Mormons wouldn&#8217;t have a problem with the name of their church if they had come up with something simple in the beginning.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Hendricks</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/07/15/yes-non-lds-mormons-are-mormons/#comment-95216</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Hendricks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3998#comment-95216</guid>
		<description>This all seems to be not much more than a futile exercise in semantics, but it is nonetheless interesting, so I&#039;ll bite.

1.  As the biggest and most commonly referred to of the restoration churchs claiming belief in Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has the most at stake in this whole who is/isn&#039;t a Mormon debate.

2.  In my opinion, when people refer to the &quot;Mormon church&quot;, they are referring to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints without distinction or, very often awareness, of the existence of splinter branches.  In my experience &quot;Mormon church&quot; is used interchangably in the popular vernacular as &quot;LDS church&quot;, whether that is technically correct or not.

3.  As long as media outlets lazily and commonly refer to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as the more common yet open for ambiguous interpretation &quot;Mormon church&quot; without delineating it&#039;s core values against fundamentalist splinter branches, then the battle for hearts and minds must be fought, and whether or not it&#039;s effective, the PR representatives can continue to fight misunderstanding however they see fit with my blessing.

4.  This whole argument is an exercise in verbal gymnastics, and as long as it&#039;s a contest, I have no problem in fighting for the term Mormon.  I do, however, think it is a silly fight.

5.  From this point forward, can we further this battle for intellectual ownership by referring to Mormon as the &quot;M&quot; word?  This could lead to some great heated debates.

Community of Christ member:  &quot;Whassup my Mormon?&quot;
LDS Church Member:  &quot;Don&#039;t you DARE use that word!  That&#039;s OUR word!&quot;

It&#039;s fun over here at the bloggernacle!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This all seems to be not much more than a futile exercise in semantics, but it is nonetheless interesting, so I&#8217;ll bite.</p>
<p>1.  As the biggest and most commonly referred to of the restoration churchs claiming belief in Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has the most at stake in this whole who is/isn&#8217;t a Mormon debate.</p>
<p>2.  In my opinion, when people refer to the &#8220;Mormon church&#8221;, they are referring to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints without distinction or, very often awareness, of the existence of splinter branches.  In my experience &#8220;Mormon church&#8221; is used interchangably in the popular vernacular as &#8220;LDS church&#8221;, whether that is technically correct or not.</p>
<p>3.  As long as media outlets lazily and commonly refer to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as the more common yet open for ambiguous interpretation &#8220;Mormon church&#8221; without delineating it&#8217;s core values against fundamentalist splinter branches, then the battle for hearts and minds must be fought, and whether or not it&#8217;s effective, the PR representatives can continue to fight misunderstanding however they see fit with my blessing.</p>
<p>4.  This whole argument is an exercise in verbal gymnastics, and as long as it&#8217;s a contest, I have no problem in fighting for the term Mormon.  I do, however, think it is a silly fight.</p>
<p>5.  From this point forward, can we further this battle for intellectual ownership by referring to Mormon as the &#8220;M&#8221; word?  This could lead to some great heated debates.</p>
<p>Community of Christ member:  &#8220;Whassup my Mormon?&#8221;<br />
LDS Church Member:  &#8220;Don&#8217;t you DARE use that word!  That&#8217;s OUR word!&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s fun over here at the bloggernacle!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark IV</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/07/15/yes-non-lds-mormons-are-mormons/#comment-95215</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark IV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3998#comment-95215</guid>
		<description>Well, you&#039;re obviously closer to the situation that I am, Mike, so you&#039;re probably right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you&#8217;re obviously closer to the situation that I am, Mike, so you&#8217;re probably right.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeInWeHo</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/07/15/yes-non-lds-mormons-are-mormons/#comment-95214</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeInWeHo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3998#comment-95214</guid>
		<description>re: 108  &quot;Despite their differences, they somehow manage to get along....&quot;

Living near a huge Jewish population, I must respectfully disagree.  The question &quot;Who&#039;s really a Jew?&quot; is alive and well in Israel and other Jewish communities.  (So this thread can continue for a few more millennia.)

The question &#039;Who&#039;s really a (Mormon, Jew, Muslim, etc)&#039; exists in every major faith tradition.  Or at least I can&#039;t think of any exceptions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: 108  &#8220;Despite their differences, they somehow manage to get along&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>Living near a huge Jewish population, I must respectfully disagree.  The question &#8220;Who&#8217;s really a Jew?&#8221; is alive and well in Israel and other Jewish communities.  (So this thread can continue for a few more millennia.)</p>
<p>The question &#8216;Who&#8217;s really a (Mormon, Jew, Muslim, etc)&#8217; exists in every major faith tradition.  Or at least I can&#8217;t think of any exceptions.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Evans</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/07/15/yes-non-lds-mormons-are-mormons/#comment-95213</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3998#comment-95213</guid>
		<description>&quot;We take ourselves much more seriously than does the rest of the world.&quot;

This, coming from Holden Caulfield?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We take ourselves much more seriously than does the rest of the world.&#8221;</p>
<p>This, coming from Holden Caulfield?</p>
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		<title>By: Holden Caulfield</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/07/15/yes-non-lds-mormons-are-mormons/#comment-95212</link>
		<dc:creator>Holden Caulfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3998#comment-95212</guid>
		<description>Re: Left Field

You mean SLC isn&#039;t the center of the know universe?

13 million (only 7 million active) out of 6.7 billion.  Is SLC the center of anything?

LF is right.  We take ourselves much more seriously than does the rest of the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Left Field</p>
<p>You mean SLC isn&#8217;t the center of the know universe?</p>
<p>13 million (only 7 million active) out of 6.7 billion.  Is SLC the center of anything?</p>
<p>LF is right.  We take ourselves much more seriously than does the rest of the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Left Field</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/07/15/yes-non-lds-mormons-are-mormons/#comment-95211</link>
		<dc:creator>Left Field</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3998#comment-95211</guid>
		<description>John, I agree completely with every word in #111.  In fact, it&#039;s almost exactly what I was trying to say in #109, though perhaps the focus of my comments got a little derailed by my choice of a closing sentence.

I don&#039;t really know what can be done about the problem, aside from my suggestion that we don&#039;t care.  The church took a lot of flack for trying to sweep polygamy under the rug.  Now the church is taking a lot of flack for addressing polygamy directly.  Neither approach seems to be effective.  In a hypothetical world where my points 1-3 were widely understood by the public, I think the church would be more relaxed about the whole subject.  It does seem that everything that the church has tried has been directed to either trying to dispel the common misperceptions, or alternatively to avoid contributing to them.

I think perhaps the problem is that the public just doesn&#039;t think about Mormons often enough for them to bother with having an informed opinion about distinctions that are vital to us.  Most of us probably don&#039;t think enough about Islam to fully grok the difference between Sunni and Shia.  We probably overestimate the extent to which the public thinks about us &lt;em&gt;at all.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, I agree completely with every word in #111.  In fact, it&#8217;s almost exactly what I was trying to say in #109, though perhaps the focus of my comments got a little derailed by my choice of a closing sentence.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t really know what can be done about the problem, aside from my suggestion that we don&#8217;t care.  The church took a lot of flack for trying to sweep polygamy under the rug.  Now the church is taking a lot of flack for addressing polygamy directly.  Neither approach seems to be effective.  In a hypothetical world where my points 1-3 were widely understood by the public, I think the church would be more relaxed about the whole subject.  It does seem that everything that the church has tried has been directed to either trying to dispel the common misperceptions, or alternatively to avoid contributing to them.</p>
<p>I think perhaps the problem is that the public just doesn&#8217;t think about Mormons often enough for them to bother with having an informed opinion about distinctions that are vital to us.  Most of us probably don&#8217;t think enough about Islam to fully grok the difference between Sunni and Shia.  We probably overestimate the extent to which the public thinks about us <em>at all.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/07/15/yes-non-lds-mormons-are-mormons/#comment-95210</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3998#comment-95210</guid>
		<description>#112 Blombed...Blog...Freud..sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#112 Blombed&#8230;Blog&#8230;Freud..sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/07/15/yes-non-lds-mormons-are-mormons/#comment-95209</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3998#comment-95209</guid>
		<description>#109: &quot;Can we be blamed for getting a little cranky and frustrated about the problem?&quot;
Yes. These kinds of mistakes happen 100s of times a day. 1/3 of the country still think Iraq blombed New York.(?) Plus  terms like FLDS are used mostly by the Church itself!
I would think the FLDS would get a little &quot;cranky&quot; about being called &quot;Fundie&quot; by the other Mormons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#109: &#8220;Can we be blamed for getting a little cranky and frustrated about the problem?&#8221;<br />
Yes. These kinds of mistakes happen 100s of times a day. 1/3 of the country still think Iraq blombed New York.(?) Plus  terms like FLDS are used mostly by the Church itself!<br />
I would think the FLDS would get a little &#8220;cranky&#8221; about being called &#8220;Fundie&#8221; by the other Mormons.</p>
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